CNN Anderson Cooper 360-Transcript

CNN Anderson Cooper 360-Transcript

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
As the war over the war in Iraq heats up, there are growing signs tonight that all that talk of bipartisanship is beginning to fade away.

Today, we heard allegations by one Democratic senator that Vice President Dick Cheney is, in his words, "delusional."

Here's what Mr. Cheney told Wolf Blitzer yesterday about Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE SITUATION ROOM")

RICHARD B. CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, Wolf, if the history books were written by people who have -- are so eager to write off this effort, to declare it a failure, including many of our friends in the media, the situation obviously would have been over a long time ago.

The bottom line is that we have had enormous successes, and we will continue to have enormous successes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, that drew a stinging reply today from Senator Dick Durbin, Democrat of Illinois.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: If the president says our continued course of action is a slow failure, you have to wonder where the vice president is receiving his information.

Earlier this morning, I said that he was delusional when it came to this issue. To be delusional is to be out of touch with reality. And I believe the vice president has been out of touch with reality when he makes comments like that. At the least, the American people expect an honest answer about the situation in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, Senator Durbin made those remarks on the Senate floor, as you saw earlier today. Is he backing down? To find out, I talked to him a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Senator Durbin, do you really believe the vice president is delusional when he suggests there have been enormous successes in Iraq? Delusional is a very strong word.

DURBIN: Delusional suggests that you are out of touch with reality.

Look at the quotations we have received from Vice President Cheney, from the start, about weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons, connections between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein.

This was the same vice president who said that, as we faced the bloodiest battles in Iraq, that the insurgency was in its last throes. And now he tells us we have shown enormous -- enormous -- successes. Those were his words.

He's out of touch with the reality of Iraq.

COOPER: His supporters would say, well, the overthrowing of Saddam Hussein, three national elections, Iraqis got to choose their own government for the first time in decades, they would ask, are those not successes?

DURBIN: Give credit where it's due. Our fighting men and women have been the best. And they have achieved goals that they were set out to do, you know, to depose Saddam Hussein, put him on trial, have free elections and a constitution, as you suggested.

But recall that the president just said, within the last day or so, that we are witnessing a slow failure with the current policy. The vice president says enormous success. The president says slow failure.

Clearly, they're not in touch with one another about what's really going on in Iraq.

COOPER: Why do you think he -- he said that? Do you think he really believes it? Do you think he's putting a brave face on it? What -- what's your reading of it?

DURBIN: I don't think he has a real realistic view of what's going on in Iraq.

When the secretary of defense, Mr. Gates, has the courage to say we're not winning this war, when the president says slow failure, when the American people are calling for change, you expect the vice president to understand the reality of what's on the ground in Iraq.

COOPER: The Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted for this resolution that basically voices disapproval of the president's Iraq policy. Senator Biden said -- and I quote -- that it was not an attempt to embarrass the president, it's not an attempt to demonstrate isolation.

What exactly is it, then, if they're not trying to embarrass the president?

DURBIN: It's what the Congress is all about, where the American people have a chance to debate and deliberate an issue. You know, this isn't a vote of confidence on the president. This isn't a vote of confidence on the troops, as Senator McCain suggested the other day.

It's a question about the policy of this country. And, if we cannot, as senators and congressmen, sit down representing the people that have sent us to Washington, and have an honest debate about policy, then we're giving us our constitutional responsibility.

COOPER: Do you buy at all -- is there any validity, in your opinion, to the arguments that McCain and Senator Lugar and General Petraeus have said, that -- that, basically, these resolutions could embolden the enemy?

DURBIN: I doubt that.

I really, honestly, don't believe that the enemy gets up each morning and looks at the news clips before they decide whether they're going to go build another IED on the roadside, and try to kill an American soldier.

But I do believe the American people expect us to engage in a debate. Look at the numbers. The numbers are overwhelming. People want a new direction in Iraq. That's what the elections said. And, if we didn't debate this, then, clearly, Congress would fade into irrelevancy.

COOPER: The editor of "The National Review" wrote -- and I quote -- "The Democratic Party has a bad habit of opposing anything that is George W. Bush's position, while offering no real alternative. Illinois Democrat Dick Durbin could only negativity, without an alternative. President Bush is taking us in the wrong direction, but there appears to be little more to the Durbin position."

You want a redeployment of troops. Is that a strategy for victory in Iraq or a strategy just to get American troops home?

DURBIN: Well, first, I hope the -- I -- my recent issue of "The National Review" has not arrived.

But the I hope the editor will be sensitive to the fact that many Republicans, including John Warner, no dove, have stepped forward and said that this policy is wrong.

What is the alternative? The alternative is what our generals have been calling for, for a long time, what Prime Minister al-Maliki is calling for, and what most Americans want: Start bringing American troops home. Let the Iraqi soldiers take their place, stand up, and defend their own country.

COOPER: Senator Dick Durbin, appreciate your time.

DURBIN: Thank you.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/25/acd.01.html