CNN Late Edition-Transcript

CNN Late Edition-Transcript

BLITZER: Welcome back to "Late Edition." I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

Joining us now, two U.S. lawmakers at the center of the debate over the war in Iraq and the president's plan to put more U.S. troops in Iraq.

Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters is in Los Angeles. She's part of what's called the Out of Iraq Congressional Caucus.

And Republican Congressman Mike Pence is a member of the House International Relations Committee. Congressmen, thanks very much for coming in.

PENCE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Waters, let me start with you and play for you a clip of the president of the United States, this week, appealing to you and other members of Congress to give his new strategy in Iraq a chance for success.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: People who are condemning the plan, a new plan that hasn't had a chance to work, have a responsibility to present ideas that they think will work. And I'm still listening for those ideas.

Success is really important in this. And I put a plan that I think will succeed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, why not give him a chance to see if this increased, 21,500 or so U.S. troops might get the job done?

WATERS: Well, we have given the president chance after chance after chance. We've had surge after surge after surge.

The president has failed miserably. He has not convinced the Congress of the United States or the American people that this so- called new plan, this so-called new surge, which we see as an expansion, is anything that's going to work.

We are sick and tired of watching our American soldiers die in a war and we don't where it's going to end.

We were led into this war with misinformation. Nothing has changed. The president has not convinced us. We want our troops home. We want the money that we're spending, over $400 billion, directed toward domestic needs.

The president of the United States has not done his job. He does not deserve another chance.

BLITZER: All right. Congressman Pence, what do you say?

PENCE: Well, I think Maxine expresses the skepticism of a great number of Americans. I was in Muncie, Indiana earlier this week at a town hall meeting, Wolf, and I heard a great deal of anxiety about the lack of progress and stability in Iraq.

And frankly, when I met with the president to talk about this new way forward, I was skeptical. I had heard from our military commanders, during all of my trips to Iraq, that a larger American footprint in that country was not consistent with our long-term goals.

But what I heard from the president, what the American people just heard from the president last week, was not just more troops for more troops' sake, but the president laid out a new strategy, new tactics, new rules of engagement where we would put Iraqi forces in the lead.

And I believe what sold me, and I believe, ultimately will win the day in this cause is that new approach, that new way forward. But we've all got a challenge. And the commander in chief has a challenge selling the American people.

BLITZER: Because he's not only finding a lot of skepticism among Democrats but, increasingly, Republicans as well. You say you were skeptical, although you have come around. Listen to Chuck Hagel, Republican senator from Nebraska.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL, R-NEB.: It is devastating our military. It's devastating our standing in the Middle East. It's hurting our budget. It's destroying our military. So we need a new course of action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He thinks this increase in U.S. troops is a disaster.

PENCE: Well, I respectfully disagree with Senator Hagel. But I will tell you -- I believe what Maxine just said, what Senator Hagel said, is a sentiment that's shared, a skepticism that's shared by a great number of Americans. But at the end of the day, I really believe that, in Indiana or around the country, Wolf, that the American people want our soldiers to come home but they want us to win and come home. And our commander in chief has now laid out a strategy, a new way forward, putting Iraqis in the lead with a new strategy, new rules of engagement. And I think it deserves a chance.

BLITZER: All right. Maxine Waters, you have one option that's part of the Constitution: cut off funding for U.S. troops involved in the war in Iraq. It's called the power of the purse. It was used during the Vietnam War.

Is that something you're ready to go forward with right now?

WATERS: Congresswoman Lynn Woolsey, Barbara Lee and I introduced legislation that would wind us out of Iraq in six months. It would do several other things.

It would help to stabilize the Iraqi security forces. It would also lend support to an international force, with the request of the Iraqi government, to stay there and help, continue to maintain security while the soldiers are being trained.

We would bring our troops out of there, provide health services for them, particularly mental health services for them. And we think this is the way to go.

When we talk about bringing our troops home, there are those who would like to describe this as some kind of irresponsible action; we're just going to pull them out overnight.

No. We're not saying that at all. We're saying that you can creditably wind out of Iraq over a six-month period of time. And certainly, there is enough money in the pipeline to do that.

The way to make sure that our soldiers are not at risk, that we wind down this war, is to bring them home. And I am absolutely prepared not to support more funding to escalate this war.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Well, hold on one second, Congresswoman, because Nancy Pelosi, the new speaker of the House -- she said on ABC on Friday, "Democrats will never cut off funding for our troops when they are in harm's way."

I want you to -- I want to pinpoint you precisely on what you're saying. You're saying you're not ready to appropriate or authorize additional funding for U.S. military involvement in Iraq?

Is that what you're saying?

WATERS: Nancy Pelosi must manage all of the Democratic caucus, all of the members of Congress. And of course, there are varying views. I come from a progressive agenda and we know that you can't have it both ways. You must have the courage of your convictions. We believe that the way to stop this war is to stop funding this war. We can bring our soldiers home and they won't be in harm's way. And we can do it reasonably, over a six-month period of time.

And I am prepared not to vote money to keep them there because I fear that I'm going to be accused of putting the soldiers in harm's way. Because that is absolutely not the truth.

BLITZER: All right. General Joseph Hoar is a former U.S. commander of the Central Command, Congressman Pence, which is in charge of the Middle East.

He testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Thursday, and this is his bottom-line conclusion of the current situation in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOSEPH HOAR, RET.: The proposed solution is to send more troops, and it won't work. The addition of 21,000 troops is too little and too late.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. He's a respected military figure.

PENCE: Well, and so are all of the members of the Iraq Study Group. What's largely lost, in the public debate today, Wolf, as Co- chairman Lee Hamilton said before the Foreign Affairs Committee on Capitol Hill Friday.

BLITZER: Your committee?

PENCE: A committee on which I serve.

The Iraq Study Group called for a temporary surge, said we would be willing to support a temporary surge in American forces to stabilize Baghdad.

In many respects, while the president has not yet embraced every aspect of the Iraq Study Group's recommendations, that aspect which is referred to as a surge of American forces is very much encompassed in that report.

BLITZER: He's rejected another recommendation, a key recommendation that they made to enter into a direct dialogue with Iran and Syria to try to bring them into some sort of negotiated settlement.

PENCE: Well, the secretary of state has made it clear and the president has made it clear that sitting down with Iran and Syria has to begin with us having leverage in that equation.

So long as we have an unstable environment, so long as we -- Iran and other countries in the region may be able to create that instability and lack of success in Iraq, we have very little leverage to sit down with them and talk about larger issues like nuclear proliferation...

BLITZER: So that's why...

PENCE: ... and the balance of...

BLITZER: ... that's why the president right now is trying to use U.S. financial resources, get western Europe, others to squeeze Iran to try to isolate Iran. And if that works, at that point, they might be willing to negotiate from less of a position of strength. Is that what you're saying?

PENCE: There's no question that continuing work in the United Nations, putting diplomatic pressure on Iran to walk away from its current path of nuclear proliferation, combined with a success for freedom and stability in Iraq, will give us the leverage we need to really sit down and make progress in that relationship.

BLITZER: All right. I'm going to ask both of these members of Congress to stand by. We have a lot more to talk about. Congresswoman Waters, Congressman Pence, we're going to talk about a little domestic politics. Who is taking the plunge into the campaign. The race to '08 is getting very crowded.

And don't forget, turn to CNN for all of your presidential coverage as the best political team on television brings you the president's State of the Union address Tuesday night.

Stay with "Late Edition." We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. The White House, the prize sought by so many already coming forward for 2008. Welcome back to "Late Edition." I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

We're continuing our conversation with two members of the U.S. Congress, Democrat Maxine Waters and Republican Mike Pence. They seem to be coming out of all corners, Congresswoman Waters, on the Republican side, we'll put a list of all of those who have either already created exploratory committees or announced they are running for president.

There's another long list on the Democratic side. We'll put that up on the screen as well. First of all, is there someone that you right now Congressman Waters, is supporting for president on the Democratic side?

WATERS: Oh, no. But I think this is democracy at work. I'm so excited about the possibility of having all of these choices. We get an opportunity to put our agenda out there before them, and query them as to who can respond to it in ways that makes good sense to us.

As a matter of fact, Barbara Lee and Lynn Woolsey and I, we're going to Iowa and we're going to New Hampshire. We're going with our anti-Iraq agenda, and we're going to help people in town hall meetings understand who is nuancing and tiptoeing, and who's really talking about getting out of Iraq.

BLITZER: Let me ask you, Congresswoman Waters, a question I asked Charlie Rangel the other day. Who would you prefer, Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama?

WATERS: I don't have a choice. They've both got to prove themselves. They have not said enough yet. Let them get out on the campaign trail and talk to the American people and answer the questions. I don't have a choice for president at this point.

BLITZER: When we last month asked the American people, Congresswoman Waters, is America ready for a woman president, 60 percent said yes, 37 percent said no. We asked, is America ready for a black president, 62 percent said yes, 34 percent say no. What do you think, Congresswoman Waters?

WATERS: Oh, I think America is ready for a competent, clear- speaking person who is prepared to take this country in a different direction, who will talk clearly and plainly to the people, and to the question, not be slick, not nuance everything, not try to have it both ways. If we get someone with a clear voice and a clear philosophy on all of these issues, I don't care who it is, black, white, green, a woman, the American people will know the difference.

BLITZER: All right, let me bring Congressman Pence into this political conversation. Here are some Newsweek polls that are just out. How is President Bush handling the situation in Iraq? Twenty- four percent approve of what he's doing. Seventy percent disapprove. How is President Bush handling his overall job as president? Thirty- one percent approve, 62 percent disapprove.

And here's a key question right now. How are things going in the country right now? Thirty percent of the American people are satisfied, 62 percent are not satisfied. They're dissatisfied. These are horrible numbers for a sitting president going into his final two years in office.

PENCE: Well, they are, and they're reflective, I think, of our previous topic, the difficult war in Iraq. This president's still getting up every morning and doing what he thinks is right to defend this country.

But from a political perspective, it's obviously an advantage that this will be the first election in I think about three quarters of a century where neither a sitting president nor vice president of either party will be seeking their party's nomination. In many respects, both parties will have a clean break from the last eight years and an opportunity to recast the war on terror, domestic policy in a manner reflective of the values of the American people.

BLITZER: It's a crowded field, but it's a wide-open field right now. Just a year or so before Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, some of the early contests.

Here's another number in this current Newsweek poll. Would you prefer a Democrat or Republican president in 2008? Forty-nine percent right now say Democrat, 28 percent say Republican. Which Republican candidate, Congressman Pence, do you think is best positioned right now to win the presidency?

PENCE: I don't know the answer to that. We have an abundance of riches on the Republican side of the aisle. I'm going to startle your viewers and agree a little bit with my friend Maxine and say that I actually think the American people are looking for leadership that will speak plainly and boldly to the heart of American values.

I really think this election on both sides of the aisle, I expect will produce nominees that will be able to speak to the war on terror, speak to the challenges of a sea of red ink in Washington, D.C., speak to an erosion of values in this country in the laws of the land as we remember Roe vs. Wade tomorrow here in Washington. And I think it will be those kind of candidates on both sides of the aisle the American people are drawn to.

BLITZER: In the first 100 hours, basically the first 40-some hours, Congresswoman Waters, the Democrats managed to get six major pieces of legislation through the House of Representatives, including such things as an increase in the minimum wage. There was no item involving Iraq per se in the first to-do agenda. What's next on your agenda?

WATERS: Well, I am focused both on Iraq and Katrina. I'm going to continue to lead the out-of-Iraq caucus and to speak about what is going on there and trying to unveil the truth to the American people as much as I possibly can, work with my colleagues.

Just the other day on the floor, I took out a special order where I got 15 members who had voted for the war to sign up to come to the floor and say, if I had known then what I know now, I would not have voted for it. We got around to speaking, eight of them speaking on the floor.

We will continue to do that kind of thing. I'm going to join with the big anti-Iraqi war rally that's going to be in Washington on January the 27th.

We're going to have a big rally there. We're going to march. And then we're going to lobby all of the members of Congress. And then I'm going to work on Katrina to bring justice to the people there who have been denied justice.

BLITZER: You've got a full agenda. We started on Iraq. We end on Iraq. We've got to leave it right there. Congresswoman Waters, Congressman Pence, a good discussion. Thanks to both of you for coming in.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/21/le.01.html