MSNBC Hardball-Transcript

MSNBC Hardball-Transcript

BARNICLE: Welcome back to HARDBALL. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved a measure today opposing President Bush‘s plan to put more U.S. troops in Iraq. Will their resolution change what happens? Democratic Senator Jack Reed is a former Army Ranger, and a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Senator Reed, thanks for joining us.

SEN. JACK REED (D), RHODE ISLAND: Thanks, Mike.

BARNICLE: Let me ask you about an incident that occurred in Iraq within the last week and a half. A CAU unit, an Army CAU unit, civilian affairs unit, five soldiers, I believe, stationed fairly permanently south of Baghdad, 25, 30 miles south of Baghdad. Insurgents described as diplomats arrived in a black SUV. Couple of black SUVs. Firefight ensues. Five United States soldiers killed. Is it fair to cite that example and say, this could be a preview of coming attractions with regard to American troops stationed permanently in neighborhoods in Baghdad?

REED: I think it is very fair, and it‘s accurate. Because the new strategy that General Petraeus was talking about and the president is talking about involves taking small units of Americans, inserting them into neighborhoods, and actually asking them to be engaged in local policing activities, providing support to not only the Iraqi army, but the Iraqi government in terms of limited public services. And so they will be more exposed, and they will be more vulnerable to these types of attacks. A very clever attack, these people were using good intelligence about the meeting time, meeting place. They had, in some cases, reported, American uniforms. The disguise themselves. They came through the checkpoints. The Iraqi troops let them through. And we can expect that type of activity.

That‘s the difference between this approach in Baghdad and previous approaches, where we really were trying to stay out of some of these neighborhoods. We were going after the insurgents in Anbar province, but we were trying to let the Iraqi forces do the bulk of the work in the cities, in Baghdad.

BARNICLE: Last night in the State of the Union, the president indicated that he had spoken to many of you people, senators, congressmen, and had listened to your arguments, and yet here was the policy. Do you think he actually listened to you?

REED: I don‘t think he listened effectively, because not only with members of Congress, but also the Iraqi Study Group, a significant opinion, I think, on the military side, in terms of the Joint Chiefs and others. And I think he tended to disregard that. He thinks he has a better way.

I personally don‘t think it is the appropriate approach. In fact, I think even the terms as he described it, a 20,000 increase, is probably inadequate in terms of manpower to be a decisive factor in Iraq.

The key issue here when you sort of separate all the different competing issues, what will compel the Iraqis to make the tough political decisions in their own protection and for the survival of their own country?

BARNICLE: What will?

REED: I personally think it‘s not putting more troops and; it is suggesting that we‘re going to stop redeploying—not only suggesting, but saying that. And also, to say essentially, they have to step up. And if they do not step up, we are not going to be an endless source of support, equipment, supplies.

The perception I have is that the Shia government believes it‘s winning. And most politicians, if they are winning, are very reluctant to change what seems to be working for them. Only when they sense that this issue could be in doubt will I think they will truly begin to take tough steps, reconciliation, sharing power, and that‘s at the heart of this whole effort.

BARNICLE: So what concerns you more, the president‘s policy or his apparent inability or reluctance to listen to people who say they have another plan?

REED: I think they both come together. And I think what we have seen is throughout this endeavor in Iraq, the president has missed I think critical turning points. Insufficient troops, the growing insurgency. He has paid more attention I think to his own voices than to what was happening on the ground in Iraq.

BARNICLE: Senator Jack Reed, thanks very much.

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