CNBC Capital Report - Transcript

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SHOW: Capital Report (9:00 PM ET) - CNBC

HEADLINE: Senators Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and Jon Corzine of New Jersey discuss whether a special counsel should be appointed to investigate the White House leak scandal

ANCHORS: ALAN MURRAY; GLORIA BORGER

BODY:
ALAN MURRAY, co-host:

Our top story tonight: The investigation into the White House leak scandal expands to include the State and Defense departments. Today Democrats on Capitol Hill are keeping up the pressure to appoint a special counsel to investigate the leak.

Senator CHARLES SCHUMER (Democrat, New York): This situation cries out for Attorney General Ashcroft to be as far away from this investigation as possible.

The bottom line is that the attorney general is so inextricably locked up with the people he's investigating, he can't do a fair job.

MURRAY: But the White House press secretary says some folks in Washington are using the investigation for political gain.

Mr. SCOTT McCLELLAN (White House Press Secretary): Leaking of classified information is a very serious allegation, and the president has made it very clear that he wants to get to the bottom of this. Unfortunately, there are some that are looking through the lens of political opportunism; there are some that are seeking partisan political advantage. I don't need to go into names; we all know who they are.

GLORIA BORGER, co-host:

So will the Justice Department hold firm or give in to enormous pressure to appoint a special counsel? Joining us now from Capitol Hill is the Senate majority whip, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

Thanks so much for being with us. You heard what Senator Schumer just said. He said that John Ashcroft cannot possibly do a fair job. Do you believe that the attorney general ought to recuse himself?

Senator MITCH McCONNELL (Republican, Kentucky; Majority Whip): Well, first, I remember when my good friend Chuck Schumer joined me and others on a bipartisan basis in calling for the expiration of the old independent counsel statute because we thought it had, you know, clearly terrorized both sides. There's not much difference between an independent counsel and a special counsel. What's happening here is that the career professionals who are there under both administrations are conducting a preliminary investigation. John Ashcroft is not conducting a preliminary investigation. In fact, if a special counsel were to be appointed, it would be John Ashcroft who would appoint the special counsel, and then, of course, Chuck Schumer and others would be criticizing him because of who he appointed. I think we ought to all take a deep breath and be comforted by the fact that these career professionals who aren't Democrats or Republicans, who'd been there under the administrations of both parties, are the ones most likely to conduct this preliminary investigation in a way that comforts everyone that politics has not been involved in it.

MURRAY: Senator, I want to play for you something that your colleague, Senator Chuck Hagel, said on this program last night and ask you about it.

Senator CHUCK HAGEL (Republican, Nebraska; Intelligence Committee): (From October 1) ...I was president, the first thing I would have done is called my chief of staff, my national security adviser into my office and said, 'I want this thing figured out in 48 hours.'

MURRAY: The question he has--the question I have is: Why do we need an investigation here at all? Why can't the president of the United States call the people potentially involved into his office or have the chief of staff call them in his office and say, 'Were you involved? Weren't you involved? Let's get to the bottom of it. Let's get an answer and let's get it over with in a couple of days'?

Sen. McCONNELL: Because the president is not a criminal investigator. This is an allegation of a serious criminal offense which ought to be handled by people who do that kind of work. The president of the United States is busy being president of the United States. He's already, through his White House counsel, directed everyone to cooperate, but criminal investigations ought to be done, I think we can stipulate, by criminal investigators.

MURRAY: Well...

BORGER: Well, Senator McConnell, now we're just joined by Senator Corzine, who's the head of the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee. And I just want to ask him--you say obviously there is no need for a special counsel; there is no need for John Ashcroft to recuse himself.

Senator Corzine, why are the Democrats at this early point saying John Ashcroft and his Justice Department ought to be out on this particular investigation? Isn't it a little early?

Senator JON CORZINE (Democrat, New Jersey; Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee): It looks to me like there is the potential for conflict. That's why people are talking about the special counsel, which, by the way, as Senator McConnell suggested, is appointed by the attorney general and serves at his pleasure. It is the need to make sure that you get an objective, thoughtful investigation of this. There is a serious crime that's been committed. And by the way, this crime was made public in July. Why has it taken so long? There's enough concern already that this was swept under the rug.

MURRAY: Well, let's ask...

Sen. CORZINE: And I think it's time to make sure that people feel comfortable that something that impacts the national security, the protection of our CIA agents, is in place and is properly functioning.

MURRAY: Let's ask Senator McConnell that question. I think it's a good question. This did first come out in July; July 14th was when Bob Novak's column ran outing the CIA agent. Why has it taken it so long for this to get serious attention?

Sen. McCONNELL: Well, I think almost no one paid any attention to it over the summer. I think it's eerily the case that the presidential election is well under way now, and this is all being fed by this effort to get the campaign going, the November '04 campaign going right now. Look, the important thing is, if this happened, it was a serious--it did happen. I mean, we know it happened. We know that it could well be a serious criminal offense. The question is: Who's the best to investigate it? And clearly, career professionals who are neither Republicans nor Democrats, not picked by John Ashcroft, are the ones that ought to do the preliminary investigation. And they will then come to him later if they conclude that the facts warrant it, and ask for the appointment of a special counsel. And my assumption is if they come to the attorney general, he's likely to do that.

BORGER: Senator Corzine, one of the most surprising people, I think, to many of us who came out calling for a special counsel yesterday was Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. We all remember her when she was first lady talking about the criminalization of politics. In her book she writes a chapter about independent counsels and how destructive they can be to policy and to politics. And yet yesterday, Senator Corzine, she said a special counsel is needed. Is...

Sen. CORZINE: Well, first of all, this is not an independent investigation, and it's not an independent counsel. This is a special counsel that's appointed by the attorney general. Second of all, I think that what Senator Clinton was talking about and has talked about is the criminalization of politics. This isn't politics. This is an issue of national security. This is an i...

BORGER: What do you mean it's not politics?

Sen. CORZINE: That is, not to say that this won't be debated in the political realm. The fact is a crime was committed. It was committed, and in the public forum on July 14th, and at this point in time, up until this week, there was nothing being done about it. And we actually have compromised a whole series of people, and particularly a CIA agent, and it's wrong.

BORGER: Well, Senator McConnell, let me ask you about the Hillary Clinton question. Is this politics?

Sen. McCONNELL: Of course. And you know, the only thing that's happening here is this is all being politicized because of the presidential election. It's an effort to embarrass the president of the United States. Look, what we should be comforted in knowing is that this investigation is being carried out by people whose job it is to do these kinds of investigations, and they were not appointed by Ashcroft or the previous Democratic attorney general. These are the people that ought to carry out a preliminary investigation, and that's what they're doing.

MURRAY: You know, Senator Corzine, I want to go back to the question that I asked Senator McConnell earlier, which is: Why do we need to drag the nation through the pain of one of these investigations? Let me show you numbers of what past independent counsel investigations have costs. There was the Iran-Contra investigation, $47.4 million of taxpayer money. Whitewater/Lewinsky, $45.2 million of taxpayer money. And then the investigation into Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy, $19.2 million, and everybody was acquitted in that investigation. I guess my question is: Why doesn't the president go in and find out who did this and get it over with instead of dragging us through one of these lengthy investigations?

Sen. CORZINE: Listen, the president, in my view, should have taken that action after the July 14th article that identified two senior administration officials from a credible conservative columnist that somebody was outed. And people want to talk about politics. The reason that this CIA agent was outed was because she's married to someone that said something that the president didn't like. That was politics. I think what we need to do here is make sure that we have an independent counsel, not--or an special counsel, not an independent counsel, that gets into all that extra expense. We ought to make sure that we get this done in an expeditious manner so that we can get on with the war on terrorism, with the security that our CIA agents are not going to be put at risk because of political actions of either the administration or anyone that's else involved.

BORGER: Well...

Sen. McCONNELL: Alan, I'm glad you brought up the cost and the delay involved with this whole procedure when we used to have the independent counsel statute. In fact, the appointment of a special counsel will probably slow it down, make it cost more and drag it out, which is probably what the Democrats have in mind.

BORGER: Well, Senator Mitch McConnell, you're going to get the last word on that, but I'm sure we'll be talking about it again. Thanks so much, Senator Mitch McConnell and Jon Corzine.

Sen. CORZINE: Thank you.

Sen. McCONNELL: Thank you.