CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer - Transcript

Joining us now, two men with front row seats in these history- making events. Congressman James Clyburn, Democrat of South Carolina, is the majority whip-elect, the third most powerful post in the Democratic leadership in the new House of Representatives. He joins us from Jackson, Mississippi.

And with us here in Washington, Congressman Roy Blunt, Republican of Missouri. He is the current majority whip in the Congress. He'll be the minority whip when the new Congress convenes in January.

To the whips, thanks to both of you for joining us. Good to have you.

And Congressman Clyburn, let me start with you. Nancy Pelosi -- a lot of Democrats are really irritated. They think she made a major blunder by getting involved in this battle for the new House majority leader, the battle between John Murtha and Steny Hoyer.

Steny Hoyer, the man she opposed, was easily elected. The New York Times writing this: "Nancy Pelosi has managed to severely scar her leadership even before taking up the gavel as the new speaker of the House.. she put herself in a lose-lose position by trying to force a badly tarnished ally, Representative John Murtha, on the incoming Democratic Congress as the majority leader."

This was a huge blunder on her part. I assume you'll acknowledge that.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, I don't know if I'd call it a blunder in her part. The fact of the matter is, I think all of us know that these inside -- the party's fights, you have them all the time.

If I remember correctly, right after Newt Gingrich took over, back in 1994, I think he favored Bob Walker to be whip, who lost out to Tom DeLay. And it was all over and then people move on.

So these things happened when you have this kind of change to take place. But Nancy Pelosi is very loyal to her friends. And that is a positive, it seems to me, in this business.

BLITZER: But don't you think...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: If she was going to support Congressman Murtha and make a big fight out of this, instead of quietly asking him to step aside, she should have had a better count and know that she was going to win. Because by losing, and losing decisively, it, sort of, underscored her inability to get the job done, as one of her first major missions.

CLYBURN: I don't think so. Once again, this is intra-party stuff. When we start acting as Democrats, trying to push our agenda, come January, I think that that's when Nancy Pelosi will demonstrate her real mettle. And I look forward to being very successful with her.

So I would not put too much into what may happen inside the party. These are personal relationships that people have, for whatever reason. Some, they go become a long way. Some develop out on the campaign trail. And that makes it a little bit different. And so I would not put too much in this if I were people looking in.

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BLITZER: Congressman Clyburn, are you among those Democrats who want the U.S. to start pulling out of Iraq within four to six months?

CLYBURN: I'm one of those Democrats. I agree with Nancy Pelosi that the Iraqi war is something that we have got to focus on very, very keenly.

But I also believe that we ought not get out in front of this Iraqi Study Group. James Baker and Lee Hamilton, I think, are coming forward in a matter of days with some ideas, some of which, I think, ought to be codified.

And I believe that we ought to make sure that we don't have the administration off doing one thing with the study group and Congress off doing something else. We ought to wait and see what's in that report. And then we ought to act in concert to get it done.

That's the way I think we ought to move forward. Because that study group is a very extensive, bipartisan study group that all of us have got faith and confidence in.

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BLITZER: Another challenge, Congressman Clyburn, that the new speaker is going to be facing, who's going to be the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee? I'll read to you from an editorial in Friday's Los Angeles Times: "The Intelligence Committee deserves a chairman who is respected by Democrats and Republicans in Congress and by the White House, and who is free of distracting questions about past personal conduct. Jane Harman fits that description far more than Alcee Hastings." Who apparently is the choice of Nancy Pelosi. Jane Harman's the ranking member right now. What do you think? Who should be the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee?

CLYBURN: The chairman the House Intelligence Committee should be whoever the new speaker, Nancy Pelosi, would like for it to be. I don't know why anybody is saying that, you know, that Alcee Hastings is the choice. I don't know what her choice is.

But I do know this. I know what the rules are regarding this committee. I know that time has expired for the current ranking member. And for her to stay would require a waiver of the rules. And I do believe that we ought to be very careful how we start out our new administration or new power with granting a whole lot of waivers.

There are a lot of people on that committee. We don't even know what the composition of the committee is going to be. Because the committee starts out brand new in every Congress. So Nancy Pelosi will be naming the members of that committee, and then she will be making the determination as to who should chair it.

Now, for us to say now, we know exactly who that's going to be, there are other members on that committee that's got a lot of ability. I know that Sylvestre Reyes is on there. I know that Anna Eshoo is on there. Personally, I like and respect Alcee Hastings. And I do not agree with the fact that just because he would move to chair, would be something different from being a member of the committee. I don't think the chair's got any more -- I'm sorry?

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BLITZER: Congressman Clyburn, do you have a problem with Alcee Hastings having been an impeached federal judge?

CLYBURN: I just said, remember, he was impeached for something that he was found not guilty for in a court of law. And so a lot of times, we have to look at the court of law being much less political than what was going on in the Congress. We are a political body. So the question is, whether or not there are facts or whether or not there are politics involved in all of this.

So I do have respect for him. I like him very much. He's been a personal friend since my college days, and I very well would support him if that's what Nancy would like to happen.

BLITZER: All right, gentlemen, stand by. We're going to take a quick break. We'll have much more with the incoming Congressional whips later.

I'll talk to some of the original architects of the U.S. war in Iraq, the so-called neocons. Ken Adelman, David Frum, Michael Rubin. Has their support for the war wavered? And what's down the road for Iraq and Iran?

Plus our highlights from the other Sunday morning talk shows here in the United States, including Senator John McCain on what to do next in Iraq.

And for our North American viewers, at the top of the hour, right after "Late Edition," the only comprehensive look at events in Iraq and updates from our correspondents in Baghdad and Tehran, "This Week at War" with John Roberts. That's coming up right after "Late Edition."

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BLITZER: Welcome back to "Late Edition." Our two guests will have the job of counting the votes and whipping up support when the new Congress convenes. The House Majority Whip-Elect James Clyburn, Democrat of South Carolina, and the House Minority Whip-Elect Roy Blunt, Republican of Missouri. He's the current majority whip. But not much longer.

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BLITZER: By all account, Congressman Clyburn, Michael Steele in Maryland came out a winner even though he lost this race. Are you worried that the Republican Party's making inroads and reaching out to African Americans?

CLYBURN: No, I'm not worried about that at all. I think that Roy is exactly right. This is all about ideas and ideals. And I think that you have to look at a Republican Party that can't quite make up his mind as to what he wants to do. They reach out or put up candidates in three states. And then they allow the kind of TV ads to run against Harold Ford that ran down there. Those were the most despicable ads that I have seen since I have been in public life.

And then they ran, a lot of the debates, especially in the House races, oh, if you elect the Democrats, you're going to have John Conyers chairing Judiciary. You're going to have Nancy Pelosi, a San Francisco liberal, as speaker of the House. And you're going to have Charlie Rangel chairing Ways and Means. They don't share our values.

What is it about Charlie Rangel and John Conyers' values that are different from American values? Both these men served in our military. Charlie Rangel wounded in the Korean war. Come back and served their state. I think those kind of things ought not be in politics anymore.

But what I am happy about...

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BLITZER: Even though Harold Ford Jr. lost, like Michael Steele in Maryland, I think he also, and a lot of people think he came out a winner. Listen to how Senator John McCain, Congressman Clyburn, summarized what he thought was the result of this election. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

U.S. SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZONA: The election was not an affirmation of the other party's program. Try as hard as I could, I couldn't find much evidence that my Democratic friends were offering anything that resembled a coherent platform or principle leadership on the critical issues that confront us today.

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BLITZER: All right, you want to respond to someone who is -- clearly wants to be president of the United States in two years?

CLYBURN: Well, let me say this. First of all, we laid out a plan that we call Six for '06. We talked about electing Democrats and getting for the first time in ten years an increase in the minimum wage. That was a substantive plan, and that's what we're going to do.

We talked about making college education or any post-secondary education more affordable for all American children. We talk cutting interest rates on student loans from 8.4 percent down to 4.2, making college tuition tax-deductible. That's the way you grow the middle class. That was a proposal.

We talked about energy, a new energy policy in this country that would make us energy-independent within ten years. And we're -- talked about homegrown and American-owned alternatives to oil. Ethanol, butanol, other biodiesel stuff (ph), hydrogen cells, increasing our expenditures in research. Now that was a program. So I don't know where Mr. McCain was while all of this was going on, but the American people got turned on to it and voted for it.

BLITZER: We've got to leave it right there, unfortunately, because we're out time. The two whips, Congressman Clyburn, thanks very much for coming in. Congressman Blunt, thanks to you as well. Let me congratulate both of you on being elected this week.

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