CNN Situation Room Transcript

DOBBS: Now, at the top of the news this evening, the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld. How will this election aftershock affect the war in Iraq? How will his resignation affect the war? Joining me now, Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas.

Senator Cornyn, good to have you with us.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: Thanks, Lou.

DOBBS: This change on the part of the administration, this abrupt change, what's your reaction first of all, to Rumsfeld's resignation?

CORNYN: Well, you know, being secretary of defense during a time of war is an awfully tough job. And, actually, being secretary of defense for six years is fatiguing beyond imagination. So, I have a lot of respect for Secretary Rumsfeld.

But I certainly understand why it's important, particularly now after the message we got last night, for us to come up -- for the president to come up with a new secretary, perhaps some new ideas so we can win the war, hopefully working on a bipartisan basis to do so.

DOBBS: Senator, did you have any idea that Rumsfeld would be leaving today?

CORNYN: I did not. I was as surprised as anybody, although, obviously, there had been a lot of discussion about it for awhile.

DOBBS: Sure.

CORNYN: And I don't think that Secretary Rumsfeld wanted to leave under under people's terms. He wanted to leave under his own terms. And, of course, this president's a very loyal person and demands loyalty from his cabinet members. And I think it was a mutually agreed decision.

DOBBS: The number of people, Senator, who wrote in to me to say, I thought this secretary of defense was about not cutting and running. This looks like cut and run to me. How do you take it?

CORNYN: Well, I think the new nominee, Bob Gates, is a good nominee. I'm interested in talking to him and learning more about his ideas about how do we adjust to the different tactics we're encountering in Iraq. How do we continue the transformation of our military from a post-Cold War military to a new, more agile military?

But I think, you know, I give Secretary Rumsfeld a lot of credit. It's a tough job and no one does it perfectly. Have mistakes been made? Well, sure, they have, but that's not really the test because I haven't met a secretary of defense or a human being period who's capable of flawless execution of any plan. But I think he's done a pretty good job, and I wish him well.

DOBBS: It's always easy in Washington terms to forget, I think, as the saying goes. None of us is perfect and we're all senators. The fact is, however, though, that Donald Rumsfeld stands squarely in the crosshairs of history in the conduct of this war.

You mentioned transformation. Is it unrealistic to be talking about a transformation of the U.S. military and the Pentagon at a time where we're trying to preserve the lives of first, American men and woman in Iraq and also provide the security necessary for the people of Iraq?

CORNYN: Well, it certainly is an incredibly difficult job, and there's a lot of different moving parts. I think, you know, we clearly do have to adjust from a post-Cold War, Soviet threat to a new threat from the war on terror.

But, you know, look, I think he's tried to do his best and that's all you can ask from someone. But I do think it's time for someone else to have a chance to do it. And, ultimately, this president's going to be the one that calls the shots based upon the advice and the implementation of a new secretary.

DOBBS: President Bush today in his news conference seemed delighted at the question about comprehensive immigration reform. You and Senator Kyl of Arizona proposed, what at least to me, is the most rational border security plan and illegal immigration plan proposed.

The president seems to embrace -- did embrace, in point of fact, in that news conference -- a Democratic Congress in which he said he thought he had a better chance of pushing through an amnesty proposal. What's your reaction?

CORNYN: Well, of course, I don't support a repetition of the amnesty mistake of 1986. I hope we would have learned from that, and frankly, I think what we have learned since we past the immigration bill in the Senate and the House -- and I, of course, didn't support the Senate version, but I supported rolling up our sleeves and getting down to work and trying to hash this out and come up with a good solution.

I think Senator Kyl and I came pretty close to finding the middle ground, where we could get broad acceptance and convince the American people we're actually going to have a system that works while we secure our borders.

DOBBS: Senator, let me turn -- we're just about out of time, but I have got to ask you this. The middle class in this country, working men and women in this country, very concerned about their well-being.

Do you think the results of yesterday's elections or last night's elections or this morning's election, depending on how you stretch it, offered up a lesson on a direction between the interest of working men and women and their families in this country and the Republican Party, a direct direction? By that I mean working in the interest of our middle class directly on the part of the Republican Party.

CORNYN: Well, elections are great wakeup calls. And sometimes they're painful, but I think what it was is a wakeup call by the American people to let us who served them know who's in charge. And we're not in charge. They are. We work for them, and I think we do need to be responsive to their concerns. We need to be much more demonstrably so now in the future. I think this has been a wakeup call to remind us of that.

DOBBS: Senator John Cornyn, as always good to talk with you, sir.

CORNYN: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Senator Cornyn coming to us tonight from Austin, Texas.

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