Fox Hannity & Colmes - Transcript

Title: FOX HANNITY & COLMES (21:00)
Date: 10/6/03
Location: Unknown

Fox News Network

HEADLINE: Interview With Tom McClintock

GUESTS: Tom McClintock

BYLINE: Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes

BODY:
SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Welcome to HANNITY & COLMES. Thank you for joining us. Our top story, tomorrow is the big day finally. California voters will decide if Governor Gray Davis gets to stay in office. Will the supporters come out of the woodwork to save him or will one of his opponents be the next governor of California?

Joining us now from Sacramento is one man who wants the job, Republican candidate Tom McClintock.

Tom, how are you?

TOM MCCLINTOCK ®, CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Great, Sean. How are you?

HANNITY: The polls aren't looking good for you. Do you think you're going to be able to come from behind? If you look at the numbers, it looks like he will be recalled as mayor (sic), if you believe polls. But the last three or four show consistently that he's recalled and Arnold takes it. What do you think?

MCCLINTOCK: Here's what they also say, and this is true of the Gallup poll, the "L.A. Times" poll and the field poll. By a large margin, people are saying they believe I would be the better governor. They believe I'm the better qualified to be governor. They believe that by wide margins, again, on the integrity issue, the character issue, the experience issue. But we're not able to translate that into votes.

HANNITY: Why do you think that is, though, Tom?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, I think it's because people are afraid that if they vote for me, they'll elect somebody they don't like. And my response to that is, if everybody who is telling the pollsters they believe I would do the best job as governor, actually votes for me, well, then, we win on election day.

So we do have the makings of an upset here, if people simply vote their conscience.

HANNITY: OK. Let me ask you. We have all of these attacks. A girl by the name of Jill Stewart I thought wrote a particularly great piece for the "Los Angeles Daily News."

And she mentions what she's calling the Thursday now before an election in California. This happened in the case of Michael Huffington. It happened in the case of the last Senate race with Bruce Hershensen (ph) as a candidate. But she's calling it Dirty Tricks Thursday.

Now it's Arnold Schwarzenegger. All of these attacks that Arnold is a Nazi sympathizer, that he's groped, quote, "multiple women" going back 30 plus years. A lot of anonymous sources.

What do you think of these charges? And what do you think of a tactic that they release these things with hardly a few days for any candidate, in this case, Arnold, to respond?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, two things that are very disturbing. No. 1, they are very serious charges.

No. 2 is that they're being brought up in the last few days of the campaign. I've always become very skeptical and very cautious of character attacks that are made on candidates in the last few days of a campaign. And unfortunately, the people of California are going to have to sort through what's fact and what's not in the time remaining.

HANNITY: Yes, but you have said that if any of this is true you wanted him to bow out of the race, correct?

MCCLINTOCK: No. What I've said is, the charges are very serious. And I don't want to minimize those charges.

HANNITY: Yes.

MCCLINTOCK: The problem is, because they're coming up so late in the campaign, I'm skeptical of them.

HANNITY: Yes.

MCCLINTOCK: I think that everyone should view them very cautiously. Well, yes, if the behavior that is alleged actually happened, well, that is reprehensible behavior. I think you would agree with that, but how can you tell in the short amount of time that we have to address this issue?

HANNITY: I think you're absolutely right. And I think this is a big problem here.

Many of these people were anonymous. Many of them go back 30 plus years ago. We have him denying these charges in most instances, although saying he has in the past been guilty of a sort of frat mentality on the set of a movie.

But let me ask specifically about the "L.A. Times," because they're the ones that have unleashed this. Apparently, they've had information and they've sat on it now and they hold it back to this Thursday before the election. It's not the first time that this has happened.

But at the same time, we have discovered through this woman Jill Stewart that, in fact, there are stories out about Gray Davis, how Gray Davis has cursed at, berated, miserably treated women on his staff that have gone on record, saying that he has physically abused them with the worst temper we've ever seen in our lives or heard about, and the "L.A. Times" sat on that story.

You're a conservative. You've got to be concerned about the double standard.

MCCLINTOCK: Well, of course, there's a double standard. In fact, I can tell you from first-hand experience that Gray Davis is a man who cannot control himself in meetings. I was in a Republican caucus meeting just a couple of years ago, where he erupted into a symphony of obscenities. Shocking behavior. So no, I don't doubt those stories at all.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Senator...

MCCLINTOCK: I do believe that...

COLMES: Hi, it's Alan Colmes. Good to have you on the show.

Look, I don't like these charges against Arnold coming out at the last minute. I think it's—I want to win on the issues. I don't want to win on speechless (ph) charges that may or may not be true and we can't prove it between now and the time people vote.

By the same token, you know, coming out and making charges against Gray Davis that may or may not be true that can't be proven between now and the time that people vote is also, I think, inappropriate. Would you agree?

MCCLINTOCK: Yes, except in two respects. No. 1, the articles by Jill Stewart were actually published several years ago.

And secondly, I can tell you from first hand experience, I've been in meetings where he's completely lost control of himself. And I've never seen another governor do that, and I've watched governors under a lot of pressure. I've created a lot of pressure for governors in the past. Never have I seen one behave in that manner.

COLMES: In what manner are you talking about? Are you saying he's temperamentally ill suited to be governor of California, even though he, at this moment he is?

MCCLINTOCK: I'm saying in a Republican Senate Caucus meeting, he erupted into a symphony of obscenities on no provocation. He just lost control of himself. And so I don't doubt the published stories.

COLMES: Just as there have been allegations about Arnold for years, whispers, that are now surfacing, if Jill Stewart knew of this or there have been these kinds of articles about Gray Davis around for years and they're now surfacing, can we condemn both of these allegations against each candidate? Because it doesn't really address who makes the better governor, and we can't prove or disprove them between now and the time people vote?

MCCLINTOCK: Actually, the Jill Stewart article was published five years ago, so it's been plenty of time for that issue to settle itself.

COLMES: Similarly, there were charges about the way Arnold acted in the year 2000, when he made a tour in England, talked some television hosts, Anna Richardson, one of the hostess who was mentioned, made some charges.

So those charges have been around, too, but they're getting greater play now. But they have nothing to do with how California should vote, based on their conscience. Would you agree?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, I would agree with that. And the fact is that when people look back on this election years from now, what happened on October 7, 2003, they are going to be a lot more interested in what direction did California take as a result of that vote than they are in any of the things that we've been discussing.

COLMES: What prediction will you make for what happens on October 7 tomorrow?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, it's my hope that every Californian votes his conscience. If every Californian votes for the person that they are saying is the best qualified, we'll have an upset victory tomorrow night.

COLMES: We had Darrell Issa on the program last week, and I asked him a question about you, where he had claimed that you promised him that you would not be a spoiler in this campaign. Was that a promise you made to him?

MCCLINTOCK: No, I never suggested to him or to anyone else that I would ever get out of this race. The consistent promise I'= have made from the very first day and have made many times on your show...

COLMES: Right.

MCCLINTOCK: ... is that I would stay in it until the finish line, and I keep my promises.

COLMES: And is there anything that could happen between now and tomorrow that would have you formally calling for Arnold to resign from this race?

MCCLINTOCK: No. And obviously, if he admitted to all of the behavior that has been alleged, that is reprehensible conduct. I think we would all agree on that. But because the charges were brought so late, we don't know how to sort them out.

So again, I'm not one making an issue of that. I think people are going to have to sort through that themselves over the next 24 hours.

COLMES: What do you have to do over the next 24 hours to change the way the polls have been trending?

MCCLINTOCK: All I have to do is convince people to vote their conscience. Not to vote somebody else's political calculations, but to vote their own personal convictions.

Our entire form of government is based on the assumption people will cast the votes that are in accordance with their own conscience, their own best judgment, their own personal convictions. This is the most important race in this state in probably 100 years. If there was any time to vote your conscience, it's this election.

COLMES: If Arnold wins will you work with him and support him?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, if he wants to cut taxes and reduce regulations, yes, I'll support him.

HANNITY: We'll take a break. More with Tom McClintock coming up in just a moment right after the break.

And also coming up, Green Party candidate Peter Camejo, he thinks that he should be the next governor of California. He'll join us the night before the election.

And then, a new report says Iraq may still have dangerous weapons hidden in the country. Why is the media refusing to tell you the truth?

And later, is Rush Limbaugh getting a bum rap? We'll debate that.

Plus, the author of a new book says criminals literally are getting away with murder every single day. And she'll tell us more straight ahead.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLMES: Coming up on HANNITY & COLMES, does California Green Party candidate Peter stand a chance in tomorrow's recall election? He'll join us.

Later, are inspectors in Iraq ever going to find hard evidence of weapons of mass destruction? We'll debate that.

We continue now with California gubernatorial candidate Tom McClintock.

Tom, Tracy Kay Price of the Lincoln Club of Orange County, a conservative club, says being a man of integrity means doing what's right for everyone, not just Tom McClintock and suggested you're in this for yourself. And I guess just another one of those hints that you ought to support what the party thinking is.

MCCLINTOCK: Well, you know, if I were to get out of this race, there'd be nobody to vote for, for those folks who want a candidate who's taken a no tax pledge, who supports the racial privacy initiative to stop the government from classifying us all according to our race. There'd be nobody they could vote for who stands four square on the Republican platform.

One of the unfortunate things about this election is some Republicans have abandoned the principles of the party, and we're seeing that play out.

But I tell you, I'm getting a huge number of e-mails from folks who are saying, "Thank God you stayed in this race. We need somebody that can count on, somebody that we can believe in to vote for."

COLMES: What's the Republican Party saying to you now? Are there people at this very 11th hour putting pressure on you to make a different choice?

MCCLINTOCK: Not really. Again, the pressure we're getting is from an awful lot of folks who are saying, "I'm so glad you stayed in this race." A lot of folks who were on the fence, thinking about voting for Arnold for pragmatic reasons, that are now realizing that people stand by principle and those are good principles in the end.

HANNITY: Tom, I stand by what I've said from pretty much the beginning. I think either one of you guys are going to be just light-years better for the state in many, many ways.

You talked about abandoning the principles of the party. As I understand—I'm more in agreement on social issues in particular with you than I am with Arnold and I've told you that.

But does that mean the Republican Party doesn't have room for moderate to social liberals or moderate liberals? I'm sorry, moderate conservatives on some of these issues? I mean, is there room for diversity? And I hate that word but...

MCCLINTOCK: We've had that discussion before. How can you be a fiscal conservative and a social moderate? How do you expect to pay for all of your social moderation with your fiscally conservative policies? I've mentioned before...

HANNITY: I'm not talking about—But, I mean, you wouldn't have to pay for gay rights. You wouldn't have to pay for abortion.

I'm not saying—I'm saying, is there room for differing views on some of these controversial social issues in this campaign? I think both of you are—And I know you would argue you are more economically conservative. But Arnold clearly is conservative and far more conservative than Bustamante and Davis on economic issues.

So I'm just saying, you know, there is a divide. Because I—Talk about getting e-mail. I've gotten e-mail from both sides. Some that say that they're glad you're the conservative guy. You stuck it out and you stuck by your promise. I get that mail.

And then I get mail that says Tom McClintock is out for Tom McClintock and if Arnold wins—loses by one percentage point because Tom McClintock got 16 percent of the vote, they're going to be very angry with you. You're not getting any of those, or I got them all?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, Sean, if I was in it for myself, then I would have gotten out a long time ago with all the threats from the party establishment that we will end your political career unless you get out.

HANNITY: I don't like those threats.

MCCLINTOCK: Well—And I don't either. But I'm not in it for myself. I am in it because of a cause that I deeply believe in and that I have devoted, now, 20 years of my life toward. And that is the fiscal reforms that are necessary...

COLMES: Senator McClintock...

MCCLINTOCK: ... that everyone now realizes are necessary to restore the state's finances and its economy.

COLMES: We thank you for the appearances on HANNITY & COLMES during this campaign. Thank you for being with us tonight.

HANNITY: Best of luck tomorrow.

MCCLINTOCK: Thanks.

COLMES: Coming up, Green Party candidate Peter Camejo will tell us why he should be the next governor of California.

And later, does Condoleezza Rice have what it takes to jump-start the reconstruction of Iraq? We'll debate that, coming up on HANNITY & COLMES.

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