NBC Today Show - Transcript

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SHOW: Today (7:00 AM ET) - NBC

HEADLINE: Senator Charles Schumer, Democrat, New York, talks about his request to have a special counsel investigate the leak of the name of a CIA agent

ANCHORS: MATT LAUER; KATIE COURIC

BODY:
MATT LAUER, co-host:

On CLOSE UP this morning, the charges being leveled against the White House. As we reported, Ambassador Joseph Wilson says the Bush administration leaked the name of his wife, a CIA operative, after he helped discredit one of the president's claims against Iraq. New York Democratic Senator Charles Schumer is asking the Justice Department to have a special counsel investigate the charges.

Senator Schumer, good morning to you.

Senator CHARLES SCHUMER (Democrat, New York): Good morning, Matt.

LAUER: We spoke to the White House yesterday. They declined to send a guest here today, saying the matter is now in the hands of the Justice Department. Several Republican congressmen declined to appear, saying there's an ongoing investigation. So why are you coming out talking about what is an ongoing investigation?

Sen. SCHUMER: Well, Matt, this is a very, very serious crime, first of all. To reveal the name of an undercover agent puts their life in danger, all their operatives in danger, deals with the security of this country in a very, very tawdry way and is punishable. It's a crime. It's not just a leak. But this is a crime punishable up to 10 years.

LAUER: I understand. But why not let...

Sen. SCHUMER: And very...

LAUER: ...the Justice Department carry out a thorough investigation before commenting further on it?

Sen. SCHUMER: Well, the bottom line is that there are many serious allegations that this is at the highest levels in the White House. If the Justice Department does this investigation itself, the chain of command goes right up to John Ashcroft. He is very close to President Bush. Even if he were to do a thorough investigation, there'd be an appearance of a conflict and no one would have confidence that it was thorough. If this were just a minor issue, yes, let the Justice Department investigate. But it's extremely serious, and we need some--we need a special counsel, somebody who is totally trusted, a Warren Rudman, a John Danforth, a George Mitchell, to lead wherever this goes. If the rumors are true, and this goes to very, very high...

LAUER: But even if...

Sen. SCHUMER: ...levels then a simple Justice Department investigation could be shut off as it got hot.

LAUER: I'll talk about the high levels in a second. But even if you follow the statute, the independent counsel statute which has expired, basically that calls for the attorney general to appoint a special counsel after receiving all the facts in a case. And clearly, at the moment, John Ashcroft doesn't have all the facts. So why jump the gun?

Sen. SCHUMER: Well, the special counsel, they're--the facts are out there. The fact is very simple: a serious crime has been committed. And that's the level of investigation that the attorney general needs to see if a serious crime has been committed. No one doubts that. Now it has to--we have to find out who it is, and that's when a special counsel should be called.

LAUER: Scott McClellan...

Sen. SCHUMER: I don't think anybody has faith that the Justice Department will do this on its own, particularly if it goes to high levels.

LAUER: White House spokesperson Scott McClellan said the following. The said, 'There's been nothing, absolutely nothing, brought to our attention to suggest any White House involvement. That includes the vice president's office, as well.' He went on to say, 'If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration.' Fairly tough words from the White House. You're not satisfied.

Sen. SCHUMER: No. First of all, the president should address this directly. I've been in Washington 22 years. I've never seen anything like this. They're angry at what Ambassador Wilson said, and so they out his wife? That is not just--even in Washington, that is--that is kneecapping. And...

LAUER: However, even Ambassador Wilson seems to have backtracked a little bit. Initially, he seemed to point the finger at Karl Rove, the senior advisor to the president. Now he's saying he has no specic information--specific information that Karl Rove either leaked the information or was involved in the leak.

Sen. SCHUMER: Yeah. We don't know who did it. I'm not pointing a finger at Karl Rove, Dick Cheney or anyone else. But the--we do know it was done by high administration officials. And I--all I want to do is honestly get to the bottom of this, not to have it brushed aside, which it seems to be what the White House is saying. We get leaks every day, they said. This is not an ordinary leak. And to get to the bottom of this.

LAUER: How do you get to the bottom of it when you're talking about sources for reporters? And there are shield laws to protect those sources for reporters. How do you get a reporter to come forward and say, 'Here's who made the phone call to me'?

Sen. SCHUMER: It's reported that two White House sources, two high administration sources, made over six phone calls. There are people within the administration that know that's what went on here. There are probably people within the Central Intelligence Agency that know what's going on here. You don't need reporters to get to the bottom of this if you have a thorough, complete and fearless investigation.

LAUER: And how do you...

Sen. SCHUMER: If the White House--if the White House, Matt, is so angry about this, then they would want to appoint somebody who is above reproach and not just treat this as some minor level transgression that...

LAUER: How do you answer...

Sen. SCHUMER: ...could be buried.

LAUER: ...charges that this is pure politics? And as we head into a re-election campaign for the president, the Democrats want nothing more than to have an open investigation from an independent counsel hanging over his head much the same way that the Republicans like to talk about some of the independent counsel investigations that were hanging over President Clinton's head several years ago.

Sen. SCHUMER: Well, Matt, first, it's the right thing to do, whatever the motivation of anybody is calling for. This is serious stuff. The whole intelligence operatus in our country from top to bottom is furious. I can't recall anything like this being done. Second, I called for this on July 22nd, the day after I read about it in the newspaper. I didn't know who did it. But it infuriated me. It infuriated me and many, many others that somebody would out an agent for vengeance or to keep, you know, a relative...

LAUER: Right.

Sen. SCHUMER: ...of that agent's quiet. So the bottom line is, whether it's politics or not, if someone's murdered and someone else says, find out who was the murderer and do it in a thorough way, the answer, oh, this is politics, isn't very sufficient.

LAUER: New York Senator Charles Schumer. Senator Schumer, thanks very much.