CNN Late Edition - Transcript

CNN Late Edition - Transcript

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BLITZER: Welcome back to our special "Late Edition: America Votes 2006." I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting today from CNN election headquarters in New York.

Two days and counting until the midterm elections, both Republicans and Democrats now pulling out all the stops for victory.

Joining us now, two veteran members of the United States Congress. In Los Angeles, Congresswoman Maxine Waters of California. She's a key member of the House Judiciary Committee. And in his home state of Michigan, Republican Congressman Peter Hoekstra. He's the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

Thanks to both of you for coming in. Mr. Chairman, I'll start with you. Your reaction to the Saddam Hussein guilty verdict? He's now slated to be executed.

REP. PETER HOEKSTRA (R), MICHIGAN: Well, I think this is a very good step, but I put it in a much larger context, Wolf. This is another step forward in making sure that we defeat radical Islam and keep the homeland safe.

You know, we've been safe, now, for 5 1/2 years, no attacks in the United States. We've been on offense against Al Qaida and the Taliban. We removed them from power in Afghanistan. We removed Saddam from power in Iraq.

This is now one more step in building a safe and a more secure Iraq. And we've had other victories that people don't focus on. Moammar Gadhafi renounced radical Islam. He gave up his nuclear weapons program, packed it up, put it in crates and sent it to the United States.

And Algeria has eliminated the radical Islamic threat. This is just one more step in a very difficult and long process.

BLITZER: All right. Maxine Waters, your reaction to the Saddam Hussein guilty verdict?

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I fully expected that he would be found guilty. We've known about Saddam Hussein for quite some time. We were all focused on the fact that he invaded Kuwait. And he became a very convenient target for this administration in the so-called war on terrorism, when they should have been going after Osama bin Laden. This is not going to change very much in Iraq, unfortunately. Our soldiers will continue to die and be killed in a war where there's no direction, that has been mismanaged by this president.

And you know, the interesting thing about it is, not only do you have Americans who are more convinced that this president does not understand how to get us out of Iraq, the military is now coming out, all of the newspapers, all of the military newspapers, the Army, the Air Force, the Marine Corps, the Navy -- they're going to come out with their editorial demanding that the president of the United States do something about the fact that he has been leading this war without any direction.

BLITZER: Hold on one second. Congresswoman, they're recommending in their editorial that Donald Rumsfeld, as the defense secretary, be fired.

WATERS: Yes.

BLITZER: But remember, The Army Times, The Navy Times, The Air Force Times, these are private publications. They're owned by Gannett. Even though they report about the U.S. military, these are not military, per se, publications. I do want to speak a little...

WATERS: They speak to the military.

BLITZER: They, of course, speak to the military, and they're widely respected, but these are private editorials, private publications.

Congressman Hoekstra, let's talk a little bit about Donald Rumsfeld. In the new issue of Vanity Fair Magazine, Ken Adelman, one of these so-called "neoconservatives," a very early supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein -- he said it would be a cake walk; he wrote that op-ed piece in the Washington Post -- to overthrow the Saddam Hussein regime.

He, now, is quoted in Vanity Fair as saying this: "I'm crushed by his performance. Did he change, or were we wrong in the past?"

Or is it that was never really challenged before?"

I don't know. He certainly fooled me."

There's an increasing chorus of people who are saying Rumsfeld should go. What do you say?

HOEKSTRA: Well, Wolf, I really think that this is much bigger than Donald Rumsfeld. I think that we need to go back to the American people and not ask them, does Donald Rumsfeld stay or not?

I think they need to answer three questions, as they move toward Tuesday. Number one, do they believe that radical Islam has declared war on the United States? I think, overwhelmingly, the evidence is yes. The second question they need to ask is, is this a war that is worth winning? We walked away from Vietnam. We walked away from Korea. We didn't win.

I think the threat is so grave that this is a threat in a war that we need to win.

And then they need to ask, what does war look like, or what does winning look like?

Winning does not look like leaving Iraq before Iraq is safe and secure. Winning looks like what we accomplished in Libya and Algeria.

BLITZER: I want Maxine Waters to respond. But before she does, the question on Rumsfeld -- do you have confidence in Rumsfeld, as the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, knowing what you know?

HOEKSTRA: Well...

WATERS: Rumsfeld is...

BLITZER: Hold on, Maxine Waters. Hold on for a second. I want the chairman of the Intelligence Committee to respond first on whether or not he has confidence in Rumsfeld.

HOEKSTRA: Wolf, I think it's clear that some of the decisions that were made in Iraq, in hindsight, were inaccurate and they were not the correct decisions.

And so we need to re-evaluate the strategies. And the president needs to determine whether he's got confidence in Rumsfeld and the people that work for Donald Rumsfeld. They need to indicate to the president and to Congress whether they still support him as secretary of defense.

BLITZER: All right, it sounds, Congressman Hoekstra, that's less than a ringing endorsement of the defense secretary.

HOEKSTRA: I think it's less than a ringing endorsement. Like I said, this is not about Donald Rumsfeld. This is about winning this war with radical Islam.

BLITZER: All right. Let's bring back Maxine Waters.

The congressman makes several points. If you leave Iraq precipitously, Congresswoman Maxine Waters, the situation is going to deteriorate. The United States is going to find itself even more endangered because the terrorists will then have an Afghanistan- like base in Iraq from which to go out and try to kill Americans. That's the thrust of the Republican argument.

WATERS: That's an absolute distortion of what has taken place. Donald Rumsfeld must go. He has led this war. He's defied all of the generals and the military establishment about how to win the war. They were improperly equipped. They didn't have the right numbers going in.

And the president is holding on to him when, in fact, anybody with any sense is saying that Donald Rumsfeld is wrong, he must go. And I think that my colleague is still trying to look for weapons of mass destruction when, in fact, there are none. I think that it is absolutely irresponsible to support Donald Rumsfeld when he has been really the poster boy for what is wrong in Iraq.

BLITZER: All right, Congressman, do you want to respond? Are you still looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

HOEKSTRA: Well, you know, there's 48,000 boxes of documents that we've acquired. I think it's important to declassify as much of the information. I don't know whether there was WMD or not. But what we should do is make sure that we go through the process and fully explore what Saddam was capable of doing. We know that he wanted nuclear weapons. We know that he used WMD in the past. What were his capabilities before the war began?

BLITZER: We've got to take a quick break. But I want you, as chairman of the intelligence committee, Congressman Hoekstra, to respond to that New York Times story over the weekend which said that the U.S. inadvertently declassified some of those Saddam Hussein documents and put them out on the Internet, on the Web, and, in effect, allowed potential terrorists out there to use that as a guide to building a crude nuclear device. As the chairman of the intelligence committee, did the U.S. intelligence community screw up?

HOEKSTRA: Well, you know, we have a process in place. It looks like they screwed up. How valuable that information was, I really don't know. The New York Times has it both ways. They said Saddam has no capabilities. Now we release -- or they inadvertently release some of these documents and they show that the Iraqi program may be much further along than anybody ever anticipated. Now, what was it? And as we go through specifically looking at those documents, we'll have a much better idea as to, again, what Saddam wanted to do and what his capabilities were just before the war.

BLITZER: All right, hold on, both of you. But that nuclear capability was in effect before the invasion of Kuwait in the late 1980s. That's what they're talking about.

WATERS: Absolutely.

BLITZER: And not talking about a nuclear program after the U.S....

WATERS: That's right.

BLITZER: ... liberated Kuwait. But we'll get back to that. We've got a lot more to talk about, including the elections, only two days away. We'll get insight as we count down to the midterm elections. More coming up with Congresswoman Maxine Waters, Congressman Peter Hoekstra.

Don't forget that "Late Edition" will also be back at 5 p.m. Eastern, later today, live, for a special election preview. We'll get insight and analysis on the key races and the issue. That's at 5 p.m. Eastern, later today.

From CNN election headquarters in New York, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to our special "Late Edition: America Votes 2006." I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting today from CNN election headquarters in New York. With only two days before America votes, we're talking with two veteran members of the U.S. House of Representatives, Republican Congressman Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters of California.

Congressman, let me put up two polls. And perhaps these polls underline why the Republicans are in potential danger right now of losing their majorities in the House, maybe even in the Senate. Among registered voters, their choice for Congress in this new Newsweek poll, Democrats get 52 percent, Republicans 36 percent, 12 percent undecided. That so-called generic poll, closer in other polls.

Economic conditions today, according to our CNN poll, 62 percent of the public say economic conditions are good, 37 percent say they're poor. How do you explain that dichotomy, Congressman? If the economic conditions are good, why are Republicans seemingly in trouble of losing the majority?

HOEKSTRA: Wolf, I can't really explain the polls. And we'll find out on Tuesday whether they're accurate or not. The bottom line is, you're absolutely right. Economic conditions are very, very good. That's shown by the confidence that people are showing in the stock market. You know, unemployment is at 4.4 percent.

Thirty-eight months of job creation, and real wages are growing. Then you put that, you know, the real difference between Republicans and Democrats on national security, you know, Democrats talk about it, Republicans have delivered. You know, Democrats talk about...

BLITZER: But is it Iraq? Is that hovering over this election that's making life potentially miserable for Republican candidates?

HOEKSTRA: It may be, and that's why I think Americans -- the American people need to ask whether they believe we're at war with radical Islam and whether we need to win this war. Republicans have talked about -- or Democrats have talked about national security. We've provided the tools necessary to the intelligence community, the American people, to keep us safe.

BLITZER: Congresswoman...

HOEKSTRA: Democrats...

BLITZER: Let me let Congresswoman Maxine Waters respond. Go ahead, Congresswoman.

WATERS: Well, first of all, Americans are fed up with the Republican Party. Even their base is fed up with them. They have created a huge deficit. They're big spenders when, in fact, they're supposed to be conservatives.

They have lied about the war in Iraq. They got us there based on weapons of mass destruction. There are no weapons of mass destruction. They have mismanaged this war, and they refuse to recognize that they have mismanaged it. They come up with no plan to get us out.

We're less secure than we were even before 9/11. First of all, they talk a good game, but they don't fund the first responders. Our police and our firemen all over this country are screaming for resources that they thought were coming after we organized homeland security.

And in addition to that, our ports are still not safe. In the belly of these airplanes that we're flying around in, they still don't have the cargo that's inspected. And so, again, we find that they lack credibility.

BLITZER: All right.

WATERS: The American people are voting against them. They're in trouble. They cannot win. We're winning because we have more credibility and they want a change in America.

BLITZER: Go ahead and respond, Congressman.

HOEKSTRA: Well, I think, Wolf, as you see, we're going to talk about results. The economy is doing very, very well. Republicans have delivered on national security. We haven't had a tax...

BLITZER: What about the charge, Congressman, that the national debt, the debt of the American people, has doubled over the past six years?

HOEKSTRA: Hey, I'm disappointed in the spending levels as well, but we've gone through a war and we went through a very deep recession after 9/11. But now with the economy coming back, the deficit is shrinking very, very quickly.

BLITZER: But it's still significant, though.

HOEKSTRA: Oh, absolutely. It is still significant. But you know, we are moving directly in the right direction.

You know, the thing that you really take a look at here, Wolf, is Democrats are being great at attacking Republicans, but if you ask them for the plan, it is cut and run in Iraq.

That does not look like winning. That encourages radical Islamists. They say they support the troops, but then they go out and...

BLITZER: Well, let me ask Maxine Waters.

HOEKSTRA: ... they question their intellect. They question their capability. And they oppose the mission.

BLITZER: Do you -- what is your plan?

Go ahead and just simply respond, in a nutshell. What is your plan for Iraq, simply to leave?

WATERS: Simply. The president of the United States has been given a chance to come up with a plan. He's not done that. Mr. Murtha came up with a plan. He said, send no more soldiers to Iraq; redeploy; keep some over the horizon in case we need to support our allies there; and wind us out of this war.

They come out with a sound bite, simply talking about cut and run. Americans don't believe them anymore. They do not have the answers. They know that they got us there under false information and so they're trying to make the American public believe that we're going to win this war and we've got to stay there until we do.

We are not winning. We're not going to win. They've exacerbated it. It's a civil war going on, now, in Iraq. And it's going to be even worse after the Saddam sentencing.

BLITZER: Congressman Hoekstra, I interviewed the former House majority leader, Dick Armey, in "The Situation Room," earlier in the week, the Republican leader. And he was very outspoken, blunt, in putting a lot of the blame on the Republicans themselves for their own political problems right now. Listen to this little clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK ARMEY (R-TX) FMR. HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: Republicans in the majority have more and more tended to become preoccupied with my position, my next committee assignment; will I win my next election?

Instead of long-term policy commitments, they became more and more enamored of short-term political actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is that a fair criticism from Dick Armey?

HOEKSTRA: Well, there's no doubt, Wolf, that we've made some mistakes. And we take credit for that. We need to be held accountable for that.

But the bottom line is, we're still the only ones that have a plan forward on the economy. We're the only ones that have a plan forward, with any credibility, that lets us attack the threat of radical Islam with the expectation that we want to and that we need to win it so that this war does not -- that we don't hand this threat to our children.

BLITZER: All right. We're out of time, but I'll give you the last word, Maxine Waters, since Peter Hoekstra had the first word.

WATERS: Well, Peter said that they need to be held accountable for the mistakes that they have made. And they will be. And the people will go to the polls and they will vote them out of office.

They have been in charge; in charge of the House, in charge of the Senate. They have the presidency. They have taken this country in a wrong direction. They have mismanaged. They've been irresponsible. They have been big spenders.

They have not done much for this economy. Yes, for the people at the top of this economy. They've given tax breaks to the richest 1 percent in America.

The poor people at the bottom who are begging for just a dollar increase in minimum wage have been denied, have been ignored, have been undermined by this Republican party.

And you're right. You will be held accountable. People are going to vote, and it's going to be a Democratic win.

BLITZER: All right. We'll see on Tuesday. Maxine Waters, Peter Hoekstra, a good debate. Thanks to both of you for joining.

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