CNN Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees - Transcript
CNN ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES - Transcript
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COOPER: Senator Durbin, even though this report says that the number of Jihadists are increasing and spreading, Senator Chambliss says that the report supports Bush's argument about the war in Iraq, basically keeping the Jihadists in Iraq concentrated makes fighting them easier. Does that make sense to you?
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: No, it doesn't. It doesn't follow at all. The report is very clear.
The president has argued, and I suppose his followers argue, that we're going to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. Well, our intelligence agencies say that, in the course of fighting them over there, their numbers are increasing and spreading across the world.
So that particular argument does not sound and doesn't follow what the intelligence estimate tells us.
COOPER: The estimate does say, though, that if you beat Jihadists in Iraq, you demoralize them, and if you allow them to win and they go elsewhere, they're going to continue Jihad elsewhere and spread -- spread this further.
Republicans are now pointing to that and saying you can't pull out. You can't withdraw. You can't redeploy as Democrats want and that the NIE proves that.
DURBIN: Look, you have to ask yourself what is the next step? Does that mean we stay indefinitely? We had a Marine colonel yesterday, a retired colonel who said we're going to be there another 10 years plus.
I think the question we were asking is what does it take to get Iraqis to stand up and fight and defend their own country? We've had very, very poor luck so far in training police and army to replace American soldiers.
COOPER: The White House is also saying, look, terrorists have hated us for years. If it wasn't in Iraq, it would be somewhere else.
DURBIN: Well, I guess you can make that argument, but the intelligence estimates told us that, as of 9/11, there were 20,000 members of al Qaeda worldwide. Now there are 50,000. The trend line is going in the wrong direction. We have to be tough. I agree. This is a dangerous world, and there are people who want to kill us. But we have to be smart in our policies, and we have to have a strategy that really starts winning this worldwide struggle. So that America is a leader and accepted around the world.
COOPER: Is it -- is it appropriate to you that this administration has had this NIE now since back in April, and for the last several months they have been going out touting a message that we are making progress in Iraq in the war in terror, and to your point, that doesn't seem to be proven by this NIE.
DURBIN: This National Intelligence Estimate that administration has had for so long doesn't square with the message that's been given to us by the president and Vice President Cheney over the last several weeks.
I think this estimate has to be taken at face value. It tells us our challenge in Iraq is much more complicated than the president led to us to believe, and that we need to step back and talk about a new direction that has us end up in Iraq with a stable country that is able to fight off Iran or any terrorists who try to invade.
COOPER: Senator Durbin, we appreciate your time. Thank you.
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http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0609/26/acd.01.html