Hannity & Colmes - Transcript

FOX HANNITY & COLMES

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Welcome to HANNITY & COLMES. I'm Alan Colmes. Let's get right to our first guest tonight.

Joining us from Sacramento is California gubernatorial candidate Tom McClintock.

Senator, good to have you with us on HANNITY & COLMES.

TOM MCCLINTOCK ®, CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks for having me back.

COLMES: I've been saying for a very long time that you are the conservative candidates, and I don't understand conservatives' love of Arnold Schwarzenegger because of his positions. And we can outline his positions and yours and see which are the real conservative ones.

Is there a pressure upon you to withdraw from the race at this point?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, I keep reading in the newspapers that there's a pressure mounting for me to get out. And I'm thinking if the pressure's growing, it means I must be gaining.

COLMES: Is there—Under any circumstances would you ever pull out before October 7.

MCCLINTOCK: No, I'm in this race until the finish line. And if you guys can think of a more unequivocal line to use, let me know and I'll use it.

COLMES: Have you heard from the Schwarzenegger camp? Have they tried to communicate with you?

MCCLINTOCK: Indirectly through a Midwest congressman, who called me and said, "Well, you guys are going to have to come to some sort of agreement here."

And I said, "Well, let me read you a list of Arnold Schwarzenegger's positions and see if they comport with yours."

And by the end of that discussion, this Midwestern Republican conservative congressman says, "I didn't realize any of that. Thanks for letting me know. Never mind."

COLMES: Can we narrow down the state from which this Midwesterner comes?

MCCLINTOCK: No, I think I'll leave it there.

COLMES: All right. So you're in; that's it. And you're not going to—And you know the pressure will mount as time goes on. There are those who, you know, the polls show that if you were to pull out, Arnold beats Bustamante. If you stay in, you divide the vote. Some would say—Go ahead.

MCCLINTOCK: Yes, but the election is not today. The election is not for another month. That's why we have a campaign, so people can evaluate the candidates' philosophy, their positions, their background, their experience, their qualifications, their character. All those things are what makes a race.

COLMES: Right.

MCCLINTOCK: If the momentum we had in the first half of this race continues into the next half, we'll be in very good shape on election day and after all, that's why we call it a race.

COLMES: If you're on the eve of election day and you know, based on what the polling is saying, that you can't win but the only way a Republican can win would be for you to pull out, would you pull out then?

MCCLINTOCK; Well, I don't think that's going to happen. I think what you're going to find in the closing days of the campaign, support is going to migrate from one column to another. And I think that if the momentum continues in my direction, we're going to see that migration in my favor. If it doesn't, we'll see that migration in Arnold's favor.

COLMES: And if you see...

MCCLINTOCK: That's up to the voters.

COLMES: And if you see the migration, do you then pull out?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, if that migration takes place there won't be any need to pull out.

COLMES: I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.

MCCLINTOCK: There would be no need to pull out in that case. And my support would go to Arnold if it looks like Arnold is the only hope of stopping Cruz Bustamante. And I think Arnold's support would come to me if our momentum continues and they realize they can actually have their first choice, and he can win.

COLMES: What's your strategy to—He's got better name recognition, probably better fund-raising at this point. He's getting all of the attention of the media. How do you combat that?

MCCLINTOCK: The same way I have been. Simply by getting my message out. As my message has been resonating with voters across California, I'm the one who's gone from an asterisk to solid double digits in the span of just a few weeks, while Arnold's been pretty much stuck, in most of the polls, in the mid to low 20's throughout this campaign. He's not gained momentum. I have, and it's been pretty dramatic.

COLMES: Isn't there another kind of momentum going on, which is that fewer people—well at least 58 percent to 55 percent over the last few days—are saying they're going to vote no on the recall to begin with. So isn't there that momentum on the other side of the equation?

MCCLINTOCK: You know, I think that's negligible. I believe the people of California have already formed their opinion on that subject. They understand clearly what's at stake for their families' future if we continue another three years down this road. So I'm pretty confident in making the prediction that Gray Davis will cease to be governor in 27 days. The only question is who will replace him.

COLMES: And you're going to predict that you will be the person to replace him?

MCCLINTOCK: If our momentum continues, I think that's a pretty good bet.

HANNITY: Hey, Tom, welcome back to the program. It's Sean Hannity here.

MCCLINTOCK: I appreciate it.

HANNITY: Look, there is no debate. Alan is right. You are the more conservative candidate. I find myself far more in agreement with your views, especially on social issues, than I do with Arnold Schwarzenegger's.

With that said, I do believe, having interviewed him, having interviewed you, I would be very happy for the people of California if we could say Governor McClintock or Governor Schwarzenegger over Governor Bustamante.

Would you feel the same way? Is he a better governor than Bustamante?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, I think Bustamante would simply continue the policies of the Gray Davis administration that have brought us to the brink of bankruptcy and devastated our economy and decimated our public works. He's made it very clear.

HANNITY: Yes. You know, here's where I want to explore something with you. Because this whole issue has come up about whether or not conservatives are compromising their principles if they vote for Arnold, who's more liberal on social issues.

Now I find myself, I don't have a problem with his economic plan, after having interviewed Arnold Schwarzenegger. I don't have a problem with his immigration policy. I think he's fairly strong on immigration.

I disagree with him on gay rights issues, gun issues and a few others. Abortion is another one.

When I look at the numbers, the California Chamber of Commerce had a poll that came out today. Bustamante after they vote yes on recall, Bustamante has 33 percent, Schwarzenegger 28 percent. You have 12 percent, less than half of Arnold Schwarzenegger. If it's just Arnold versus Bustamante, he wins 49-42. If it's you versus Bustamante, according to these polls, you lose 47-41.

So right now he is a much stronger candidate, with more than twice the vote of you. If it's that way...

MCCLINTOCK: Sean—Sean...

HANNITY: If it's that way in three weeks, are you going to go along with this idea that Republicans split their vote, one Democrat gets all of their votes and he would win? Does that bother you?

MCCLINTOCK: Now, Sean, I was just going to point out, the election is not today. The election is four weeks from now.

HANNITY: I agree.

MCCLINTOCK: We are literally only halfway through this campaign.

HANNITY: Yes, I agree with you.

MCCLINTOCK: So it's...

HANNITY: I think you have the potential...

MCCLINTOCK: We should not be suggesting we ought to have the election today. The election is next month.

HANNITY: I think you have the potential to come up. The only scenario I'm asking. Here's what conservatives and Republicans are telling me in California. They do like you. You are a rising star in the Republican Party in California. There is no doubt about it. Everybody recognizes that. You have a great track record. I think you have a great future in politics. I like where you're going.

I'm just saying if, in this race, if you get to the point three weeks from now and your numbers are the same, Tom, would you then consider getting out because you don't want to split the ticket, which would help Bustamante win?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, Sean, let me tell what you the pollsters are saying? That is, that will happen by voters coming to their own conclusions as we get close to the election. Now, that's a common pattern in elections like these.

If I'm not making any more progress over the next four weeks, I would have no doubt that many of my voters are going to migrate to Arnold. And similarly, if I am showing that momentum...

HANNITY: I agree with you.

MCCLINTOCK: ... you will see the other side happen. You'll find a lot of Arnold Schwarzenegger supporters...

HANNITY: Absolutely.

MCCLINTOCK: ... look at me, just as you are, and saying, "Boy, he's the most qualified candidate, but I'm just not sure he's going to win." That's what they said, by the way, about Ronald Reagan in 1980, if you'll recall: he's our first choice but we just don't think he can win. When he began demonstrating he could win, you saw an avalanche of support towards him.

HANNITY: I think either you or Arnold Schwarzenegger will have a very hard time winning with the other one in the race. And this poll, this California Chamber of Commerce poll, shows that, that if you get out of the race, most of your votes go to Arnold. If he gets out of the race, most of his votes will go to you.

And it's interesting. They asked in this question, if you knew your candidate was limited and did not seem to have enough votes to win, would you want to see that candidate withdraw? Sixty percent of Arnold's said yes. His supporters said yes. Sixty-seven percent of your supporters said they'd want you to withdraw one week out if, in fact, it doesn't look like you can win.

Does that mean anything to you?

MCCLINTOCK: Sean, I am in this race to the finish line. I am not going to let down all of those folks who supported me.

HANNITY: All right.

MCCLINTOCK: I am going right to the end.

HANNITY: I respect that.

MCCLINTOCK: The voters ultimately will make that decision themselves.

HANNITY: Yes. Look, Tom, I respect it. It's got to be a tough position for you. But you've got to admit, this is a unique situation. You have two—two popular Republicans, rising stars in each case, and one Democrat. And one vote. It's a very tough scenario for Republicans. So I think you admit that.

MCCLINTOCK: Sean, it's not a tough position at all to be in. I'm doing what I know is right.

HANNITY: I understand.

MCCLINTOCK: I'm the only candidate in this race that has the grounding in public policy, the experience and the plan to take California back into prosperity.

COLMES: We'll take a break. I want to get at some of the issues with you when we get back with Senator McClintock, right after the break.

And coming up, we'll get some insight from the other side with California Democratic Party chairman Art Torres. How far will the Democrats go to keep Gray Davis in office?

Then, do the Democratic presidential candidates give George Bush a run for his money last night? We'll debate that.

Later radio talk show host Phil Valentine joins us with his new book, "Right from the Heart."

It's all coming up on tonight's HANNITY & COLMES.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: Still to come tonight, the Democrats took center stage last night here on the Fox News Channel. But is their only message a tired old rerun of Bush bashing? We'll debate that.

But first, more with California state senator, gubernatorial candidate, our good friend Tom McClintock.

Tom, you have referred to this MEChA group as a racist organization. It has called for a separate nation. It also has as its slogan, "To the race everything, to those outside the race, nothing."

Explain in more detail why Mr. Bustamante needs to distance himself from that group?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, he was a member of that organization when he was in college. And I realize people in college sometimes do stupid things. But because of that association, he needs to renounce that association that he had in college. It is an overtly racist organization. Any candidate running for governor of this state who has those kinds of past ties needs to renounce them.

HANNITY: Does that go the same for—hold the same for Gray Davis' comments about having to be able to pronounce the name "California" correctly?

MCCLINTOCK: Yes, that's the kind of stupid comment we have expect to come from Gray Davis. Fortunately, we'll be done with that in 27 days.

HANNITY: Let me ask you what's appropriate. By all accounts so far, you're the one with the cleanest background in this race and God bless you for it. But when you...

MCCLINTOCK: Isn't it a boring life, Sean?

HANNITY: The two of us, we've both had boring lives.

But is it appropriate, is it relevant to go back 25 years—maybe it's Bustamante's association with a particular group and his failure to denounce their slogan now or, in the case of Arnold, "Oui" magazine and the things that he said back then or lifestyle that perhaps he lived back then. Are these issues important to you? Should they be relevant in such a campaign?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, I think when they involve one's political views, of course they're relevant. If you've taken a political position in the past that good judgment and reason has convinced you is wrong, you need to say that.

As far as Arnold Schwarzenegger's personal life, I couldn't care less about his personal lifestyle. I mean, he was 29 when he gave that interview. When I was 29 I was Republican whip in the state assembly, serving my second term in the state legislature. As I said, I had a more - - let's say a less eventful youth than Arnold.

But his personal life, 25, 30 years ago I don't care about. I care about his political views today.

COLMES: It's Alan. Let's do something really radical here. Let's talk about the issues for a moment.

MCCLINTOCK: Uh-oh.

COLMES: How do you view the deficit problem? What do you do? I haven't heard a plan from Arnold. I haven't heard a logical plan. You have a history as a deficit cutter. What do you do now?

MCCLINTOCK: Yes. It's not hard to find ways, in a state that spends as much as California and produces as little. If we simply extended the state government the same freedom to shop around for the best service at the lowest price, there's about $9 billion savings across all departments right there.

Streamlining the state's bureaucracies, eliminating those bureaucracies that overlap the local or federal jurisdictions or overlap each other, there's about another $6 billion in savings there across all departments.

Simply conforming our workers compensation laws to Arizona's would bring our workers comp laws down by about two-third down, in addition to the enormous burden that would lift upon businesses and therefore generate more tax revenue, it would also mean $2.5 billion of direct savings to state and local governments.

You could go on and on.

COLMES: And I'm sure you could. You have said, only you would veto domestic partnerships, driver's licenses for illegal aliens. You're against 187, which services to illegals. You want fewer...

MCCLINTOCK: I support 187.

COLMES: Yes. Excuse me. Support. And fewer gun restrictions. Only you have that position in this race. I don't agree with those positions, but you're the only candidate with those positions.

Does it baffle you why more conservatives haven't supported you, given the fact that those are your professions and those are their professed positions?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, I think as we reach those voters we are convincing them, and that's why I've got all of the momentum on my side and why the other candidates seem to be stalled. That message is getting out there, and it is resonating across a broad cross-section of California voters.

HANNITY: Tom, you've got a very important three weeks for you coming up ahead. We wish you all the best of luck. We'll have you on, I'm sure, between now and then. And thank you so much for being with us. Good to see you again.

MCCLINTOCK: Thanks again for having me, guys.

HANNITY: When we come back, we'll hear from the chairman of the California Democratic Party. We'll get both sides.

And also coming up a little later, will all the shots fired at President Bush last night come back to haunt the Democrats? We'll have the latest fallout from last night's debate. J.C. Watts will join us.

And mark your calendars: get this. HANNITY & COLMES on the road again. We'll do a show this time in Philadelphia. It's going to be Thursday, October 2. We'll be taping the show at 5 p.m.

If you would like to be a part of our studio audience, you can call us, right now. It's toll free: 877-FOX-TKTS.