CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript

Interview

CNN "THE SITUATION ROOM" - Transcript

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BLITZER: Welcome back.

As we just heard from our Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, the Bush administration is now explicitly spelling out its rules for the humane treatment of terror detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. My next guest visited the detention center only yesterday.

Democratic Senator Dick Durbin is back with us. He's on Capitol Hill.

Senator, thanks very much for coming in.

Did you actually get a chance to meet with any of these nearly 500 detainees there?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: Yes, I did get a chance to see them. There wasn't any direct contact with them, but we were given access to the entire camp facility.

I think it was one of the first tours that saw everything. And I want to salute Admiral Harris, who I think is doing a great job with the soldiers and sailors at Guantanamo under very trying conditions.

BLITZER: He's the commander of the base there.

When you say you could see the detainees, did you watch them being interrogated?

DURBIN: Yes. There was a camera in one of the rooms. So we watched one of the interrogations, and it was much different than you might imagine.

A relationship had been developed between the interrogator and the translator. The interrogator set down, opened a bag, handed the detainee a Subway sandwich. He lit up and started eating the sandwich and started talking. It was a much different circumstance than most people would imagine

BLITZER: Some of the critics would suggest this was a dog and pony show for an important legislator who had come by to visit, that this was simply not the real world at Guantanamo.

Are you convinced that what you saw is actually the reality of that prison? DURBIN: You know, that's possible, Wolf. But I don't believe it happened.

I think that Admiral Harris went out of his way to make sure that we saw the situation in the reality that they face. Now, there could be tougher interrogations. I'm sure there are. But I think under most circumstances what I heard was reassuring, because the chief interrogator told me they follow the Geneva Conventions. They follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

And I talked to some of the other interrogators, and they acknowledged that a few years ago, the message from the Pentagon and from the administration was really confusing. They were saying the Geneva Conventions didn't apply and there'll be a new definition of torture.

That wasn't not fair to the interrogators or the troops. And I'm glad that that era is behind us.

BLITZER: If this situation has so dramatically improved, why were you told that -- those three suicides occurred only a few weeks back, why did three of those terror detainees commit suicide?

DURBIN: That's hard to answer. And I know there were other attempts that were made, too.

I'm sure that some of them become so despondent that they decided that suicide is the only option. There are some that are, of course, under treatment now for depression, the kind of psychiatric medication that is needed for them to continue.

That is going to happen in a situation with 450 people, some of whom have been incarcerated for more than four years. But I think overall, the environment and circumstances at Guantanamo are dramatically improved.

BLITZER: Is -- are you pleased -- I assume you're pleased by the memorandum that the deputy defense secretary, Gordon England, put out today, saying that the Geneva Conventions should be applied to these terror detainees even though they were not uniformed military personnel representing a state government or anything along those lines?

DURBIN: You know, Wolf, we've fought many wars and used the Geneva Conventions standards and used them successfully to interrogate prisoners and for the conduct of our own soldiers. This was the first administration that I know of that decided that they should depart from those standards and values.

That was a serious mistake. And history will not judge them well for that decision. But I'm glad to see that Gordon England made that decision today in a memo that all of the detainees in military custody will be protected by the Geneva Conventions.

BLITZER: If the U.S. tomorrow were to capture Osama bin Laden on the battlefield in Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or wherever he might be hiding out, or Ayman al-Zawahiri, the number two, what would you recommend? How -- should they be accorded the rights of prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions?

DURBIN: I know that Osama bin Laden has been guilty of some of the worst war crimes in the history of humankind. And if he is apprehended, he must be held responsible for that conduct, should be tried and treated accordingly.

We must treat him, though, with the kind of basic values that we've always stood by as a nation. And in doing so, we're not only projecting our image to the world, we're saying exactly how we want our soldiers treated if they are ever taken prisoner.

BLITZER: Would you want him in -- at Guantanamo Bay, or at a federal maximum security prison in the United States, like Marion, Illinois, for example?

DURBIN: Well, I would tell you I couldn't guess the best place for his incarceration. I hope the CIA will reactivate its efforts to find him. That's for sure. And if they do find him, I'm not sure where he'll be tried. But I believe that that should be the outcome.

BLITZER: Your bottom line is you were impressed by what you saw at Gitmo?

DURBIN: I was impressed, but I understand the powerful negative image of Guantanamo around the world. And I do believe we should close down that facility over a few months' period of time.

We're down to about 300-plus detainees who would have to be transferred to some other facility. But it would say to the world the Supreme Court decision has been a break with the past. And from this point forward, the United States is going to be much more open and transparent in its treatment of prisoners, and we're going to live consistent with the Geneva Conventions standards.

BLITZER: Senator Dick Durbin is the second ranking Democrat in the Senate.

Thanks for coming in.

DURBIN: Thank you, Wolf.

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