Senate Armed Services Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities Holds Hearing on FY2004 Defense Authorization: Special Operations Command

FDCH TRANSCRIPTS
Congressional Hearings
Apr. 9, 2003
Senate Armed Services Subcommittee on Emerging Threat s and Capabilities Holds Hearing on FY2004 Defense Authorization: Special Operations Command

REED:

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me welcome General Brown and Master Chief Rogers (ph) and Mr. Schulte here and echo the chairman's comments with respect to not only the extraordinary success of our special operators, but also the fact that, in the course of these battles, we have lost special operators. And we send our condolences to their families. And we join everyone in expression of our great respect for what they do and what their comrades continue to do.

I was speaking with General Brown just before the hearing and one of my colleagues, General Dale Daly (ph), is deeply involved in special operations in the theater of war today. And he is an extraordinary soldier and representative of all of the special operators I have had the pleasure to know in my career and my professional life.

We understand also that, as the battle is concluded, the special operators will be key in the next phase, which is stabilization operation, which offers different challenges, maybe even more daunting challenges. And I think that is something that we should be very much aware of.

As we understand, today in Afghanistan, special operators remain some of the key elements of our policy and just as they will remain in Iraq after secession of the conventional hostilities have taken place.

As we go forward too, I think we also want to recognize and understand the needs for the Special Operations Command to revitalize and restore its equipment, its personnel, to bring back its soldiers and sailors and airmen, retrain them, re-equip them. That's going to be a significant cost. And I think we would like to begin, at this hearing, to understand the dimensions of that cost as we go forward, and what of those costs have been recognized in your budget going forward, General Brown.

But we're all here today to say to you, "Well done." Extraordinary act of courage and professional skill on behalf of the nation and the world. And I thank you for that.

And Mr. Chairman, I have a more formal statement, which I'd like to include in the record.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REED:

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

And thank you, General Brown, for your statement. Well done.

In your prepared text, you state, "SOCOM must establish command and control infrastructures to complement the geographic combatant commanders." With your new role and your mandate to operate anywhere in the world, I think this one of the key issues that you have to face organizationally.

Can you give us an idea what you're doing and what steps you're taking to make it less hypothetical, for example, in coordinating with SOUTHCOM with respect to Colombia, coordination with NORTHCOM with respect to the Philippines?

BROWN:

Yes, sir. What we're doing is, as we take on this new role as the supported commander, we're ensuring that we have the connectivity with all of the regional combatant commanders, theater special operations command, we call the TSOCs. Those are special operations forces that are a component of all of the regional combatant commanders.

We believe that they will be key in assisting us as we go on with the war on terror, to help us identify targets, deploy folks and command and control the battlefield. With that in mind, we have added additional people to the TSOCs, about 84 in some and about 74 in others, based on the requirement, so that they can help us do this command and control when we're in the supported commander role.

Additionally, we have stood up the joint operations center down at Tampa, Florida that gives us connectivity to all these people and at collaboration centers, so that we can be not just sharing information, but actually collaborating as we go through our planning process. We've built a campaign support group that actually has members of all of the regional combatant commanders and the interagencies, located right with us at Tampa, Florida, in a temporary facility that we will eventually put in a world-class warfighting center.

So part of the vision is that we have got tremendous connectivity out through our theater SOCs and right there, from Tampa, Florida, for our planning.

REED:

Let me follow up, general. Are there budgetary issues involved in this coordination? I mean, before you came on board with this mission, the CINCs had essentially this mission in a geographic zone, with budget authority. And they were planning to do this. They were the ones who were going to operate.

Now you come in and say, "Now it's our responsibility." Can you elaborate just briefly on whether there are budget issues?

BROWN:

The first thing I would say is that this is—we work in very close coordination and cooperation with the regional combatant commanders. I think one of the great things about this entire plan is that it is not an either/or. It is we're all in this thing together. And we will coordinate very closely with the regional combatant commanders on a day-to-day basis, as we take on these type of missions.

We plussed up those SOCs so that we could help not only the regional combatant commanders as we place this additional burden on them, but additionally to help us make sure that we are informed with everything that's going on in their theater. And the regional combatant commanders have been extremely supportive of this plan.

In addition to the plus up of personnel for resources that I already spoke about and the building of our facilities down at Tampa, Florida that will help us do this, we also have asked for additional force structure so that we can forward position it to increase our ability to be agile and flexible as we get these type missions and to reduce our reaction time. And that is part of the plus up that we went in and grew, the $1.7 billion in '04 plus up that we have.

A lot of that money will go to help us forward position, increase our connectivity, increase our national mission posture and to plus up our TSOCs. We will actually have a forward based capability where we can react much more quickly.

REED:

One of the other consequences of a new mission is a refocusing of roles, giving up some traditional roles that the special operations community perform, like training, liaison with other countries in training. And certainly, we've seen that in Colombia, for one example, the Philippines and elsewhere. Can you comment about how this is going?

And also, with respect to not only gaining some more flexibility, but you lose something, I would suspect, in terms of exposure to foreign militaries, language training and those aspects, which come with the training mission, for one.

BROWN:

That's a great point, senator. That's one of the things that we want to make sure that we maintain the value of our interaction with all of these foreign services that we work with and train with on a regular basis, because that is one of the keys to our cultural awareness for our ability to be out around the world working.

We are already turning over some of the missions that we have started to conventional forces that they can pick up. I think the best example of that is the Georgia Train and Equip Program, where we went in; we got it started; we set it up. And then we brought a Marine Corps company in behind us.

They spent a couple of weeks to make sure that they understood the same POI, so that we didn't start all over again. And then they just continued on. And that special forces company was then allowed to redeploy to prepare for other missions.

We're also looking at other personal security detachments. And we are studying this very hard for every potential area that we could turn over to a conventional force, we intend to do that.

REED:

To get back to the point that I raised in my opening comments, is that I understand that for each year of operations at the 2003 level of OPTEMPO, the cost of replenishing those stocks is on the order of about $300 million. And that's on top of operations—the maintenance cost of current operations.

The long and short of it, can you give us an idea of the impact that you see going forward on the operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Philippines, the potential situation in North Korea, in terms of additional monies you might need?

BROWN:

It would be very difficult for me to give out a figure to say exactly this is the amount we need. We know that after Iraq, Operation Iraqi Freedom is done and we have redeployed, we will have to refurbish a lot of our helicopters and our C-130s. Just about every C-130 that we have right now that we own is deployed, except for keeping the schoolhouse open.

Our 47 Echos are all we have left in the States that is keeping the schoolhouse open, all those. So they're going to need refurbishment. And we've got some plans to do that.

Our forces are going to have to come back. And we're going to have to pay for the attrition of all of our equipment that we have lost or has worn out or been damaged over there. We'll have to ensure—and we have been working very hard to ensure—that our schools are operating again at a maximum capacity, so that we can continue to ensure that we've got the force in the field that we need.

We'll have to restock all of the shelves in our SOSA, what we call our special operations support activity, that maintains our stockage of parts for us. There is a myriad of things that we're going to have to do. For me to put on a specific price tag on it, it would be very difficult.

REED:

It sounds like it's a significant number. It's not a rounding error we're talking about here.

BROWN:

I think it's a significant number, senator.

REED:

And is that anywhere in the budget that we're seeing before us, general? Is that number?

BROWN:

We have some plans. A good example of that will be that we have money for the MH-60 program that we'll do in concert with the big Army. We have money for the MH-47 program that we'll convert then to the G-models from the current E-models.

Those aircraft will just naturally go through that line and be refurbished and come out the other end. So some of those costs have already been paid.

And then additionally, of course, we're looking forward to the potential of a supplemental, which is about—the '03 supplemental, I'm talking about—which for us is about $1.7 billion, about $531 million that we've already gotten, leaves us at about $1.2 billion. From that, we'll pay deployment costs, flying hour costs. But some of that will be to continue to field equipment in small numbers that we need to continue fighting the global war on terrorism.

So it's very difficult to see, without knowing exactly where the end date is and when we will be able to come home and when we will be able to start rotating our forces around, is exactly what this bill will be.

REED:

I think we all understand there will be a bill. And the sooner, I think you'd be pleased, the sooner you knew because then you could start planning.

Let me—and the chairman has been very kind. I can stop now, Mr. Chairman and then I could . . .

ROBERTS:

Oh, no. Please proceed.

Just, general, understand we're authorizers. We promise everything. It's the appropriators that are tough.

(LAUGHTER)

REED:

You have talked about the new mission and special operators. And we've seen your great skill and progress. One area of special operations, civil affairs and psychological operations—and as I say, again, going forward, the civil affairs function is going to move from the back ranks to the front ranks. Psychological operations are ongoing today and will continue.

In the new orientation, do we have sufficient resources committed to these two areas of civil affairs and psychological operations? Do we have enough forces? And most of these forces, I believe, are in the reserves.

Can we continue to count upon the reserves to, again and again, be taken from communities and called up and then sent back and then taken again? Can you comment?

BROWN:

First of all, let me talk about real quick about our reserve forces. I think in Special Operations Command, we do a tremendous job of training and working with our reserve component. As you have already mentioned, senator, most of our civil affairs forces are in the reserves. We only have one active civil affairs battalion. And that's at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, the 96th Civil Affairs.

That active component will grow. Of the 2,500 or so spaces that we'll get here in the '04 timeline, that active component will grow about 184 people. That will help them with some of their tasks.

Additionally, we will grow four more civil affairs battalions in the reserve component because of the amount of demands that we place on these civil affairs folks. Our civil affairs folks we work with on a regular basis.

They have been deployed to Kosovo. They have been deployed to Bosnia. We routinely use them around the world. They have done tremendous work for us in OEF. And of course, as you mentioned, during the final phases of OIF, they will be extremely important to get out in those areas and design and figure out what the infrastructure is going to have to be to help put Iraq back together again and make sure that all those services are there.

Civil affairs forces on our reserve component are extremely important to us. And that's why we are going to grow four battalions.

I think we're also growing nine CAT-As (ph), which is the four man teams that go out, and about 184 in the active component.

REED:

Thank you, general.

Final question.

BROWN:

Sir, can I interrupt you?

REED:

I'm sorry.

BROWN:

PSYOPS, I failed to mention our great PSYOPS forces. And I didn't want to leave them out. You are correct that about a third of our PSYOPS forces are on the active component. But we are also going to grow in our PSYOPS forces so that we can continue the great work that they are doing.

We will actually grow two active component companies in our psychological operations, four companies additionally in the reserve component, and then we're standing up the strategic PSYOPS element of about 70 folks that will be located at Tampa, Florida.

So both of those issues we're getting involved with, making sure that they have the force structure that they need.

REED:

Do these PSYOPS companies have a geographic orientation? Or are they generic?

BROWN:

Some of them—one of them—they are all different kinds. The truth is that some of them will be oriented on specific areas and some of them will be what we call general purpose battalions. And those have two different kinds of missions as we stand them up.

REED:

Thank you, general.

Final question. The advanced SEAL delivery system, it's been in development since 1994. It's six years behind the original schedule. Costs have more than tripled.

Last year, we authorized the GAO report. One of the recommendations GAO made was to have the DOD Cost Analysis Improvement Group conduct an independent estimate. And this recommendation was apparently rejected by the Department of Defense, indicating that they have not yet determined the level of Cost Analysis Improvement Group involvement necessary.
When can we expect DOD to make at least the determination of whether the Cost Improvement Group will be involved and when they will be involved? And a more general question, when can we expect the costs to stabilize, the schedule to firm up and the system to be coming on line? I believe there is one vehicle now, a prototype in Hawaii, is it?

BROWN:

Yes, sir. I'll say something about ASDS now. I'd ask Mr. Schulte to get involved with this answer.

Our ASDS, you're right, sir. We've got one. It's a prototype. It's out in Hawaii right now. It has made 115 dives. And it has spent over 1,000 hours underwater at this time.

It took part in Millennium Challenge and actually ran a sample scenario during Millennium Challenge, which performed very, very well.

REED:

Were they on the blue team or the red team?

BROWN:

They're on the blue team.

REED:

Okay.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REED:

Thank you.

Just a final point. Command Master Chief, have you had a chance to ride in the delivery vehicle yet? Or within the SEAL community, what's the word? Not from the cost perspective, but from the warfighter perspective?
ROGERS (ph): You're talking about on the ASDS, correct, sir?

REED:

Yes.

ROGERS (ph): I've had a chance to talk to the SEALs who have been involved in the testing. The last time we went to Hawaii, I had a chance to talk to the group. Did a couple of exercises out of it. And they had very positive things to say about it.

It's accomplishing what we intended it to do, which is it puts the operator in a dry, relatively comfortable—notice I say relatively. If you have seen one of these, you know that the inside of this thing is not what you would call spacious. But it's adequate for getting our folks inside there and keeping them dry and comfortable to where they get to where they are actually going to do their insertion and continue on with the rest of the mission.

So it's been positive so far.

REED:

Well, if they were of normal size like myself, it would be comfortable. It would be even spacious.

(LAUGHTER)

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REED:

One question, General Brown. I understand that you have a number one unfounded priority for military construction for your new operations center in Tampa. And this is about a $27 million project. Is this money in the supplemental?

BROWN:

Sir, I am happy to report that the department has found a way to fund our operations center. And that will be built at Tampa. It will integrate all of these little organizations that I spoke about earlier—our interagency collaboration center, our CSG, which is our campaign support group, our joint operations center, that right now we have built in trailers and other places.

And the department has said that they will help us build that. And so we're thrilled about that. And we're about to get on with it.

REED:

And we can presume you will revise your unfounded list?

BROWN:

Yes, sir. We will.

REED:

Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.