Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee and House Science Subcommittee on Space Aeronautics Hold Joint Hearing on Space Shuttle Columbia

FDCH TRANSCRIPTS
Congressional Hearings
Feb. 12, 2003

Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee and House Science Subcommittee on Space Aeronautics Hold Joint Hearing on Space Shuttle Columbia Disaster and Future of NASA

WYDEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Administrator O'Keefe, when I chaired your confirmation hearings, I found you to be honest and candid. And we're going to need an awful lot of that in the days ahead. And we appreciate your being here.

My first question deals with the huge brain drain situation at NASA. It seems to me that you all are hemorrhaging talent in key areas, like electrical engineering. And I think this has implications, both for the short term and the long term.

The February 1st date, for example, on that date, you all were being pushed to, in effect, use more outside contractors and fewer people within the agency. So some, of course, are saying that when we have a chance to study this, it's going to come back to people. So I'd like you to comment on the brain drain problem, both from the short term and the long term. And what's being done to address it?

O'KEEFE:

Thank you, Senator. Indeed, that is a concern that, as we've discussed previously, as well as we've talked about in various hearings, that over the course of the last dozen years or so, we've seen a very clear trend in the direction of an aging work force that are capable, very strong professionals. But it is, nonetheless, a very mature work force.

We've got three times as many scientists and engineers that are over 60 as we have under 30. And so the consequence of that set of decisions made in years gone by, of bringing in additional talent at gradations, there is no way to instantly grow longevity as well as experience base.

What we submitted last June to the Congress was a series of legislative initiatives specifically focused on strategic management of human capital, as has been advised by the General Accounting Office. David Walker, who is the comptroller general, has consistently talked about this.

So we forwarded the series of legislative provisions that have been sent to the Congress. They're in the appropriate committees of jurisdiction. They're under consideration to try to deal with what those tools would be that we could use for the purpose of not only retaining, for the near-term period, the kinds of capabilities and talent we have today, but also recruiting talent with some experience base from a variety of walks and backgrounds, as well as bringing in new graduate students and doctoral students who would replace that roughly 60 percent of the work force that is of scientific and technical background.

You are exactly right. It is a concern. And we want to act on it.

WYDEN:

I want to ask...

O'KEEFE:

We look forward to the Congress' early enactment of all those provisions to move us along that way.

WYDEN:

I want to ask one other quick question. I think when we get to the bottom of this, I think we're going to see that we've got to address this issue. And I just pray that this tragic loss hasn't been due to some human error.

The second question I had deals with manned versus unmanned space flight. I think that manned flights represent the aspirations and hopes of so many Americans. But I will tell you, I personally believe we're going to need to do more in the unmanned area. I think it is going to be an imperative in the days ahead.

And I'd like your judgment as to how to make that call. For example, I'm attracted to the argument that, when you're talking about the space station, a few hundred miles up, that wouldn't be as high a priority as really looking to distant worlds. But I'd be curious how you'd go about tackling this question of making the tough calls, with respect to manned versus unmanned.

I want to see the manned expeditions go forward. I do think we're going to have to have a bigger role for unmanned expeditions in the days ahead. And I would like to hear you tell us how you'd go about making those calls.