'This Week' Transcript 5-14-23: Sec. Alejandro Mayorkas and Rep. Michael McCaul

Interview

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Yes, thanks for having me.

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I don't -- I don't think so. I -- I -- I do think there are caravans going up. I think they still want to get in. My governor of my home state has put Texas National Guard and DHS, CBP troops on the border to stop the influx.

But, yes, the fact is, the last two and a half years speak for themselves. We've had five million people enter this country illegally, 1.5 get-a-ways. It's unsustainable. And I really enjoyed -- you know, the federal judge, they're usually fairly objective, saying that this was the defendant, in this case the United States of America --

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Of its own making, this crisis.

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Why did it take him so long? I mean I told him from day one, you can call it whatever you want, but the migrant protection protocols, Remain in Mexico, were working. Why? Because political asylum has been abused by the cartels. And when they get into the United States, whether they have legitimate claims or not, they're released into our society. And then you have 5 million people without any legal status. A lot of them go to stash houses. They're trafficked. They get into criminal enterprises here in the United States.

And it's interesting that two and a half years later, they're now walking this back and trying to implement something, you know, MPP like, but not exactly. We passed a border security bill this week in Congress. And my portion was to codify and authorize into law the Migrant Protection Protocols.

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Yes, and I chaired a Homeland Security Committee. We did a lot of border bills, bipartisan. I think there's room for that. I think this was kind of our big, bold blueprint, if you will, that if we got the Senate and the White House, this is what Republicans would pass.

I'm still hopeful that there are rational Democrats out there who will work with us on some of these provisions. I don't think the whole bill is going to pass, you know, Schumer. I'm not, you know, I'm not disillusioned by that. I mean, I -- but I do think there are some things we can do bipartisan.

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Well, this is always a game we play, every Congress, you know, in daring each other to jump off the cliff. It's a dangerous game. I think defaulting on our full faith and credit, any financial person would tell you, that's very catastrophic. So, I -- you know, what I think is going to happen, I think Republicans have given at least, you know, again, like with the border, we have a plan. They said we couldn't govern. We got a border bill passed. We've got a debt ceiling bill.

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I think it's --

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Well, but --

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But the point is, we've come forward with our plan. Now let's -- the president's got to come back with -- with what his plan is. I -- I think we were reasonable to say, we're willing to raise the debt ceiling, but we want meaningful spending cuts and capping spending at 2022 levels.

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Yes.

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Sure, right, our adversaries look at this very closely. They look at when we're divided, too, as a nation. I think they would love nothing more, particularly China, to see us default, you know, on our full faith and credit under the Constitution. I -- I -- to -- took an oath to the Constitution. I think defaulting is not the right path to go down.

So I'm the eternal optimist --

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Well, I -- I think it would be. And I think any financial investor will tell you that. I think any economist will tell you that. And I agree with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs that our adversaries are looking at this, and we have to be very careful what we do. I -- I'm optimistic we will get to a place where we can avoid that situation.

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Well, and -- and I think Donald Trump --

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I think he always thinks in terms of winning and losing. I -- I will say this. I think what he is thinking is that this counter-offensive, which is happening soon, will be so successful that we can have a cease-fire and maybe get to a negotiating phrase.

Do I want Ukraine to win? Of course. That's why I wanted the administration to put everything they had into this conflict so they could win. And thank God the Brits stepped it up when this administration wouldn't put the longer-range artillery to Crimea. Our administration has put Crimea as a red line. And a victory in Ukraine is also a victory against the Chinese Communist Party in Taiwan.

I just came back from the region. Every Asian leader told me what happens in Ukraine has a direct impact on Taiwan.

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Well, you know, it's not -- it's not my choice; it's his. I mean, we have a legitimate subpoena. There's no executive privilege. A dissenting cable of 23 employees out of the embassy before Afghanistan fell, stating why they dissented to the administration's policy is very relevant to congressional oversight.

We're trying to work with them. They just sent another letter trying to delay this contempt proceeding. But if we don't get that cable -- you know, they offered --

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They offered a filtered summary. They've offered another sort of peace offering, if you will. I think it's a delay tactic. But I am prepared to move forward to contempt proceedings. But I take it very seriously, Jonathan. I mean, this would be the first time a secretary of state's ever been held in contempt by Congress, and it's criminal contempt. So I don't take it lightly.

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Well, it would go to the Justice --

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Thanks, Jonathan.

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