ABC "This Week" - TRANSCRIPT 'This Week' Transcript 1-8-23: Sec. Alejandro Mayorkas, Rep. Scott Perry, Rep. Andy Barr and U.S. Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn

Interview

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STEPHANOPOULOS: We are joined now by Congressman Scott Perry, chairman of the House Freedom Caucus, and Congressman Andy Barr, who's an ally of Kevin McCarthy.

And Congressman Perry, let me begin with you.

You finally voted for McCarthy on the 12th ballot on Friday. How did he change your mind?

REP. SCOTT PERRY, CHAIR, HOUSE FREEDOM CAUCUS & (R) PENNSYLVANIA: Well, George, good morning.

Let me start with this. Frederick Douglas, who knew something about power, said, power concedes nothing without a demand. Never has and never will. This was never about Kevin McCarthy. This is about power for the American people. And with all due respect, Nancy Pelosi ran Congress like a -- like a prison camp with no accountability. You know, the American people are very, very tired of this gang of seven, gang of eight, literally seven or eight people, or just a few people in Washington, D.C., running all of the policy for the American people.

So, when we had a framework of an agreement where the American people can be in charge, when their representatives can actually bring amendments to the floor in good faith, said, sure, if we can do that, then I'm all in.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But that was the one concession he made. Also, what were the other specific promises, particularly on the debt limit?

PERRY: Well, as I said, their -- it's a framework of an agreement. So there are numerous things. It's accountability for the speaker. It's about making sure that we have a budget that we can agree upon that doesn't just continually increase spending, but then we appropriate to that budget. And -- and so it's a -- it's a whole host of things. It's like single subject bills coming through Congress. Something that has never happened before in the history of Congress.

So the -- George, the American people, among other things, are tired of these Christmas tree bills with all these ornaments on them coming for -- in the middle of night, 4,000 pages, $1.7 trillion, 7,200 earmarks. Everything works perfectly for Washington, D.C., but there's no presents under the tree for the American people. And so restraining those things and getting those things in order, it's a -- it's an entire package. It's not just one thing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But I ask -- but I -- right, but I asked about the debt limit. Did he specifically say that he would not negotiate over the debt limit unless there's a -- unless it's tied to a balanced budget?

PERRY: What we're -- what we're talking about is a debt limit that -- that if we're going to pass a debt limit increase that actually does something to drive the trajectory of the ever-increasing debt down. We can't just keep doing the same thing under the same conditions with the same management and expect different outcomes. The American people are sick and tired of this endless debt increasing.

While I've been in Congress, George, the debt has increased double. It's gone from about $15 trillion to $31.5 trillion. Where is the end of it? And there's been no mechanism in sight to rein that in. At least we have a mechanism now.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But that mean -- President Biden has said he's not going to negotiate. So, are you prepared to have the United States default if he does not agree to your spending cuts.

PERRY: I think everybody should negotiate. I don't know why President Biden says he's not going to negotiate. I mean that's what this is all about, so that all the voices of the American citizens are being heard, not just the voices that voted for President Biden or, quite honestly, not just the voices that voted for Kevin McCarthy or Scott Perry, but every single voice. Saying you're not going to negotiate, I think, is an untenable and unacceptable position for almost every single American no matter if you're on the left, right, or on the center -- in the center.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to ask you about January 6th investigation. Department of Justice officials have seized your cell phone. They've gone over your e-mails. Have you also appeared before the grand jury?

PERRY: I have not appeared. But let me say -- let me say this, George. For me it's always been about open, fair elections, where it's easy to vote, but it's really, really hard to cheat. That's where I've always been. Nothing has changed.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, but all -- all the courts said that there was -- there was no widespread fraud in the January 6th election. If you're called to appear before the grand jury, will you plead the Fifth?

PERRY: Look, I'm not going to speculate on what might or might not happen in the future. But, again, my position has been very clear. And, quite honestly, I think it's the same position almost every single American has, should be easy to vote but should be really, really hard to cheat. And whether it's fraud or not is immaterial. There are things have been done that makes this vote more important than that vote. And that's not acceptable. Each vote should count the same.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The speaker has also reportedly said that he's going to appoint a church-style committee to investigate the investigations.

Since you're part of the investigation by the Justice Department, will you -- will you pledge not to serve on that committee?

PERRY: Well, why should I be limited -- why should anybody be limited just because someone has made an accusation? Everybody in America is innocent until proven otherwise. And I would say this, the American people are really, really tired of the persecution and the instruments of federal power being used against them. We're talking about parents that go to school board meetings for the schools that they pay for with their taxes and having the temerity to question the curriculum, and then they're put on, you know, the red flagged, they're flagged by the Department of Justice and the FBI for attending a meeting.

That's not what America is supposed to be about. That sounds like some tin horn third world dictatorship.

Sure, we're going investigate and we need to. We need to make sure that these agencies aren't running amuck and aren't out of control which clearly they are.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Doesn't that pose a conflict to you since you're also part of the investigation?

PERRY: So, should everybody in Congress that disagrees with somebody be barred from doing the oversight and investigative powers that Congress has? That's our charge.

And again, that's appropriate for every single member regardless of what accusations that are being made. I get accused of all kinds of things every single day, as does every member that serves in the public eye. But that doesn't stop you from doing your job. It is our duty and it is my duty.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman Perry, thanks for your time this morning.

PERRY: Thank you so much, George.

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