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Interview

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Joining us now, newly sworn in Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York. I can't call you congressman-elect anymore. Thanks for being here.

So you supported Kevin McCarthy in his bid for speaker from the beginning, all 15 ballots.

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Yeah.

TAPPER: McCarthy's had to make a lot of concessions in order to flip the hard liners. Are you worried about any of the concessions?

LAWLER: No. I mean, a lot of these rules were already negotiated over the last two months. The only thing that changed was the motion to vacate from 5-1, which I was willing to concede on long ago. I mean, at the end of the day, as Steve Scalise pointed out, that was the rule for over 100 years in Congress. So the person who changed that was Nancy Pelosi.

TAPPER: Yeah.

LAWLER: So reverting it back to the one and based on the fact it took 15 votes, clearly they can pull together five people if they wanted to.

TAPPER: Well, that's the only -- you're right in the sense that that's the only change that showed up in the rules that you're going to vote on. But there are all these other side deals that we don't know exactly what they are. They haven't been presented. We've heard some of them. For instance, tying any vote on raising the debt ceiling to some accompanying spending cuts.

I asked Congressman Chip Roy, one of the hard liners who eventually flipped to supporter McCarthy about this concession. I want you to take a listen.

LAWLER: Uh-huh.

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TAPPER: Does that concern you at all?

LAWLER: Look, we have a conference of 222 members, inclusive of 18 districts such as myself that came from districts Joe Biden won in 2020. So, all of us collectively are going to have to work together. And it's not just the opinions of the Freedom Caucus or those that were holding out on Kevin McCarthy for speaker that are going to matter. It's all of us.

And so, my objective, regardless of the rules, regardless of, you know, what agreements there were, is to make sure that we can govern as a conference because that is what the American people expected. They wanted us to be a check and balance on the Biden agenda and the only way to do that is to collectively work together.

So as I will listen to and hear out my colleagues from the Freedom Caucus, they're going to have to listen to and hear me out as well.

Now, with respect to spending, let's be very clear -- spending from both parties has been excessive for a very long time. And there is no question that we have to rein in spending. And anybody who disagrees with that is honestly being dishonest here because we cannot sustain the level of debt that we have incurred in recent years.

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LAWLER: You have to rein it in.

TAPPER: Look, the United States government spends considerably more than it takes in and that's been going on for decades. I think the issue is there's going to be a faceoff here, right? I mean, Democrats don't want to have a debt ceiling increase bill that's tied to spending cuts. And if there is the kind of showdown we saw in 2011 and U.S. credit is downgraded --

LAWLER: Right.

TAPPER: -- I mean, that could cost billions of dollars and hurt Americans' retirement accounts and really have staggering consequences. And I don't know of the 222 members of the House, that you're part of their conference -

LAWLER: Right.

TAPPER: -- I don't know that everybody understands that or cares.

LAWLER: Look, there's no question we have to pay our debts.

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That is an obligation --

TAPPER: Sure.

LAWYER: -- that we have incurred.

But the White House and the Senate must also understand that we are the majority in the House. And so there is going to have to be a coming together. There is going to have to be a bipartisan negotiation and it's not going to just be up to the Senate to say, oh, no, we just want a clean debt ceiling bill. There -- we have to get spending under control.

So from my vantage point, you have to work in good faith. You have to work with your colleagues. There's 222 of us. You need 218 to pass a bill.

So to my colleagues in the Freedom Caucus, they're not going to just be able to dismiss voices like mine and advance the ball forward. But the Senate and White House are going to have to work with us, too, and that -- and so I'm not concerned about the fact that there's going to be some hardball here, because you know what? Sometimes that's the only way you actually get the result that is desired.

TAPPER: Sure.

LAWLER: You have to rein in spending somehow.

TAPPER: And Chip Roy said --

LAWLER: People are going to have to give and take.

TAPPER: And Chip Roy said on my show yesterday, he said, let's start the process now so there isn't this brinksmanship later in the year, but -- I mean, welcome to Washington. We'll see how that works.

LAWLER: It's not just Washington. Go back to Albany. Budget deadline, March 31st. They blow right by it for years and years and years.

You have to -- you have to force the hand here and I think everybody needs to come to the table sooner than later so that we can get serious about this.

TAPPER: Just a quick yes or no. Is the rules vote, is it going to pass do you think?

LAWLER: Yes.

TAPPER: It is, absolutely.

Congressman Mike Lawler, good to see you and good to see you in person. Thanks for being here.

LAWLER: Thank you.

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