CNN "CNN Newsroom" - TRANSCRIPT Prosecutors Detail Stunning Evidence Against Brian Walshe; Looming Battle in Congress as U.S. to Hit Debt Limit Tomorrow; 14 Dead, Dozens Hurt in Helicopter Crash Near a Kindergarten in Ukraine. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Interview

BERMAN: All right. This morning, the White House and House Republicans are gearing up for a fight as the U.S. is set to hit the $31.4 trillion borrowing cap tomorrow. That is the debt ceiling. With me now is Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen, he is a member of the Budget Appropriations and Foreign Relations Committee. Good morning, Senator, nice to see you.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Good morning, John. Great to be with you.

BERMAN: So, yesterday, on the debt ceiling, you said there will be no negotiations over the debt ceiling, paying our bills on time. If there's not going to be any negotiation, how's there going to be an agreement to raise it?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, John, we cannot negotiate over whether the United States pays its bills on time. At the end of the day, we have always paid our bills. And if we stop doing that, you're going to have an economic catastrophe.

And so what we're saying is that House Republicans don't get to demand that we enact their right-wing agenda in exchange for them agreeing to do what we all should do, which is pay our bills on time. I think you're going to hear in the coming weeks and months about the discharge petition in the House, looking for a few House Republicans, the reasonable Republicans, to join with Democrats to get this done.

BERMAN: Aside from a discharge petition, and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, that's a legislative maneuver to get around the idea of getting it on the floor to speaker, aside from that, how would you convince them to vote to raise it without a negotiation?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, we're going to rely on the American people and small businesses and everybody else in the country, which really is all of us, to remind them of the catastrophic consequences of being reckless and refusing to vote to increase the debt ceiling.

Again, I think as your viewers have learned over the years, we're talking about paying bills that are already due and owed.

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And you and I, if we woke up this morning saying we're not going to pay our mortgage or we're not going to pay our car payment, there would be consequences. And if the United States wakes up one day and says, we're not going to pay our bills on time, it's a meltdown for the economy.

And so I think as the clock ticks, Republicans in the House are going to have to face a moment of reckoning. Do they really want to be responsible for the meltdown of the American economy and all the fallout for working people throughout the United States.

BERMAN: But you really just think that this is going to change their mind? I mean, have you met them?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, they're very far out there, there's no doubt about it. And now they're signing a bunch of them to the oversight committee, but we don't need a lot. Because the margins are so tight in the House, we just need a handful of House Republicans to do the right thing and sign a discharge petition and avoid a default. So, that is the path forward if Speaker McCarthy and others are not going to do the rational thing, the right thing for the country, then we're just hoping for a few. We're hoping there are a few, John, Republicans who don't want the United States to default on its debt for the first time in our history.

BERMAN: And just to be clear, I think you used the word, economic catastrophe. You're willing to risk that by saying, we're not going to talk at all.

VAN HOLLEN: John, we're not risking it. We're ready to vote today to lift the debt ceiling and make sure that we pay our bills on time. Secretary Yellen told us yesterday that the date is probably sometime around early June. So, we certainly have got to get our act together before then. But, no, we're willing to vote today to do the right thing, to prevent any kind of economic catastrophe.

What Republicans are saying, I just want everyone to understand, is that you have to enact our right-wing agenda. We don't know if they're going to be demanding cuts to social security, Medicare, defense, non- defense, education, in exchange for doing what we all should do under our sworn responsibilities, which is to protect the country, and that, of course, includes the economy.

BERMAN: You, of course, are in the Senate now, but you're an alum of the House. I will ask you about your alma mater, as it were. You mentioned committee assignments a moment ago. George Santos, congressman from New York, who has admitted to lying about his resume, got committee assignments, small business, science, space and technology. What do you think of that?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think it's interesting that Republicans said that they were going to assign him to insignificant committees. Now, they're apparently telling all the small businessmen and women throughout the country that the Small Business Committee is an unimportant committee, and they're willing to assigned Santos there, someone who defrauded his constituents to get into Congress.

So, look, I don't think he should be in Congress, but I think it is very telling about, you know, the double talk Republicans use for small businesses, that they decided to put him on that, which they have described as an insignificant post.

BERMAN: What questions do you have for the Biden White House on the classified documents that have now been found at an office and his private residence? Have they been forthcoming enough?

VAN HOLLEN: I do, John, think they've been forthcoming. I mean, as they've discovered new documents, they have reported that, they have provided the documents to the National Archives, as they should, and I expect that they will continue to make sure that we're provided with information. Of course, now the attorney general has appointed a special counsel to look into this. So, that will be the forum for review of the president and those documents. But, again, the question is what did they do when they discovered it? And they self-reported and they did the right thing. I mean, when you look at what the former president did, it was the opposite. He didn't self-report. He took the documents. And the big issue legally has been, what did he do when the government asked for the documents back, for the unauthorized documents to come back? That's the question. In the Biden case, they decided to provide them themselves. In the case of former President Trump, he resisted all efforts to get them returned, including a subpoena. So, that's why that case is where it is right now.

BERMAN: Senator Chris Van Hollen from Maryland, we appreciate seeing you this morning. Thanks so much for joining us.

VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you. Thanks, John.

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