Federal News Service Transcript - Visa Issuance, Information Sharing and Enforcement in a Post-911 Environment: Are we Ready Yet?

Federal News Service

July 15, 2003 Tuesday

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE IMMIGRATION AND BORDER SECURITY SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
 
SUBJECT: VISA ISSUANCE, INFORMATION SHARING AND ENFORCEMENT IN A POST- 911 ENVIRONMENT: ARE WE READY YET?
 
CHAIRED BY: SENATOR SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R-GA)
 
LOCATION: 226 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): Just briefly, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much, and thank you for convening this important hearing. I too am anxious to learn about the status of our visa issuance and information sharing and enforcement post 9/11. But there are other concerns strictly—beyond strictly the concerns about terrorist activity and terrorists coming into our country illegally and whether we are doing the kinds of things that will allow us to, in your words, to identify the bad guys and make sure they don't do us harm.

Yesterday the Judiciary Committee had hearings on free trade agreements that had been proposed with Chile and Singapore and some immigration related provisions of those free trade agreements which would create another category of entrant into this country, temporary professional workers outside of our traditional immigration system. And as you and I have discussed, Mr. Chairman, on Thursday I filed a Guest Worker Bill to hopefully begin to restart the debate that had been put on the backburner in the last two years in the wake of 9/11, with how we deal with the huge number of people that we know are illegally in this country and who we simply don't know who they are, or for sure exactly why they're here.

And a means to try to determine that in addition to provide a lawful framework under which people who do want to come work in this country can do so, and provide the labor that, frankly we need. And at the same time provide some protection against exploitation.

My point is that I'm concerned that our administrative process for keeping track of immigration and issuance of visas and information sharing, may not be up to the current task, and therefore causes me concerns about additional burdens that may be placed on our State Department and Department of Homeland Security, and doing the other things that we need to do on top of the mandate we have in a post 9/11 environment.

And obviously we want to make sure that our enemies cannot thread the cracks in a system that is not functioning as it should and threaten our homeland. So, thank you for convening this important hearing and I look forward to hearing from these witnesses that you've asked to appear before the committee.

SEN. CHAMBLISS: Thank you, Senator Cornyn, and we're going to be joined by other colleagues off and on during the hearing, and it may be that some of them will want to have opening statements, which they certainly will be allowed to make at that point in time. Mr. Ford, we welcome you here today, we appreciate the work that you have done, we have read your report, which has been very enlightening in any number of ways and we look forward to hearing your testimony. Before doing so, as I indicated we are now joined by one of our colleagues, and Senator Durbin, if you have any opening statement you wish to make, we'll certainly—okay. Mr. Ford, again thank you for being here, we look forward to your testimony, and you may proceed.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
SEN. CORNYN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Ford, I appreciate the work you've done which you've outlined. I guess trying to put this in a larger context, did your study primarily do—have to do with the—as I understand visa issuance policies and the level of coordination and cooperation between the different federal agencies that were responsible for this process?

MR. FORD: Mr. Senator, we have two separate reports that I should make a distinction on. The report that we issued in October of 2002 was a more comprehensive review of the visa issuance process, primarily focused on the role of the State Department and its Consular Affairs offices overseas, and that report really focused on a comparison of policies and practices prior to 9/11 and policies and practices after 9/11, and the differences in the way that the department was focusing on the issuance of visas.

The report in June that we issued is more involved with the interagency process of identifying visas that had been revoked and making sure that they were—that the information was provided to the appropriate domestic authorities, in this case law enforcement and immigration. So the second report really focuses more on the interagency process.

SEN. CORNYN: But your focus was on people who had actually applied for and received a visa and—as opposed to people who have entered this country without even making any pretence at doing so through the legal process.

MR. FORD: That is correct. Our analysis was based on all cases where there was an illegal visa that was either reviewed and/or issued and later revoked.

SEN. CORNYN: And I want to make sure I understand—Senator Chambliss asked you about, and I believe you addressed the question of what sort of legal—what sort of evidence would be required to expel someone whose visa had been revoked, what that legal test might be or what the case—what they might have to prove in order to expel that individual, is that correct?

MR. FORD: That is correct and the issue here is that we felt that there was some disagreement between the State Department and the Department of Justice and DHS with regard to what level of evidence or test might be required.

SEN. CORNYN: And are you suggesting that it's—that the State Department or the United States of America, any of agencies, can't expel somebody whose visa has been revoked for any reason?

MR. FORD: Well, Senator, I have to tell you that I'm not a lawyer. My understanding is—I can't really answer that directly because I don't know—I can't tell you what the level of evidence is required. What I can tell you is that there was some disagreement between the agencies with regard to that level of evidence. And in the case of the State Department they felt that they needed a higher level of evidence in order to, for example, issue a visa. With regard to the Department of Justice, for example, in October when we reported on that issue, they felt that the level of evidence didn't need to be as high as the State Department. Now, we had recommended at that time that they get together and try to resolve that. I don't know what the current status of those discussions are.

SEN. CORNYN: Whatever the standard is though, after someone who's entered this country on a visa, after that visa has been revoked, is there any question about our legal ability to expel that individual?

MR. FORD: Yes, my understanding is that we—that the fact that the visa itself has been revoked, is not a basis to have someone removed. That individual has due process, and there has to be a process that they go through before they can be removed. They can—when the difference is that when an individual has their visa revoked prior to entering the country, my understanding is the law is clear that they can be unilaterally put back on a plane and—without any due process. Once an individual comes into this country legally, with a legal visa and then subsequently has it revoked, there is a—some due process that has to occur, they cannot just be removed unilaterally.

SEN. CORNYN: Would it be different for somebody who's entered in—come to the country on a visa and then that visa's simply expired as opposed to being revoked, do you know if there's any difference in the legal standard of what needs to be shown before they can be deported?

MR. FORD: My understanding is if this—if the visa is expired they can be removed or deported from the country.

SEN. CORNYN: Well, my understanding is that we have between eight and 10 million people who have come to this country illegally, and are currently still in the country, and most of whom have come to the country on some form of visa, and have simply overstayed their visa in terms of it's expired and they stayed here. And while I applaud the efforts that are being undertaken to identify those for whom a visa should never be issued or those who represent threats to the United States and whose visas should be revoked, my hope is that we will look at the eight to 10 million people who are here, and try to figure out why they're here. Hopefully they're all here for good purpose, and we can address that, but it seems like this is only scraping the surface of the true threat to our homeland security.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.