MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Gwen Moore

Interview

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Joining us now to discuss, Democratic Congresswoman Gwen Moore of Wisconsin. She is a member of the CBC and the House Ways and Means Committee. Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here on this historic night.

REP. GWEN MOORE (D-WI): Oh my goodness. I`m -- what a way to end the day with you, Zerlina. Good evening.

MAXWELL: Thank you so much. It was a historic day, like I said. It was full of ups and downs, 85 minutes of Kamala Harris being the president, Build Back Better passing through the House, but also the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict. And that`s what I want to start with. What`s your reaction to the verdict?

MOORE: Well, just let me start out by saying -- by recalling something that a defense -- a late defense attorney, a good friend of mine once told me. That not guilty is not the same thing as innocent. And I think that that`s what we have here.

I absolutely was not surprised by the verdict. And, you know, as soon as I realized that this judge was going to throw out the two very minor misdemeanor counts of his violating curfew as a 17-year-old, being out, and then carrying a weapon as an underage person that completely took the pathway, I think, to the conviction of anything further than that.

And then he protected this defendant`s character. The jury never heard anything about Rittenhouse`s state of mind, you know, shortly after during this event, you know, when he walked around with a t-shirt saying free as F and hanging out with white supremacists groups and so on. You know, as a black person, I probably am seeing what a fair trial looks like in so sort of twisted way.

MAXWELL: One of the things you mentioned is the fact that there`s a lot of evidence, obviously, that we can talk about here that wasn`t necessarily in the jury room as the jury deliberated. So, I think the specifics about this particular case, people are going to be talking that for the end of -- until the end of time.

In terms of the bigger picture and what`s happening in this country, I think this trial happens within the context of the two other trials related to white vigilante violence, the Charlottesville civil trial and also the trial of the men who killed Ahmaud Arbery down in Georgia.

Do you think this verdict, this acquittal will embolden other white vigilantes or other folks to commit acts of violence against black lives matter protesters or anyone who stands up on behalf of civil rights?

MOORE: Well, I mean, that`s the chilling concern and worry about this. You know, I was never for the open carry law. We have far too many guns as it is in our society. Again, Rittenhouse got off with some technicality about how the state statute was written that allowed him to have this AR-15, this underage would-be safety patrol officer.

I wonder if this is not going to spread. And then, Zerlina, I have heard and I have seen that the so-called second amendment consortium of groups and, you know, white supremacists are offering him all kinds of internships and opportunities.

And it is very frightening the message that it sends beyond the jury`s -- what they had in front of them, their "not guilty" verdict versus the reality that he is being buoyed and elevated, you know, and has really shown little to no remorse about having killed people and only being concerned about his own plight, you know, in my estimation.

MAXWELL: And one of the things, I think, we have to keep in mind here is that all of this stuff is happening at the same time we`re in this global pandemic. As I mentioned, on the flip side of things, Kamala Harris assumed the powers of the presidency today for 85 minutes.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi led the Democrats through the process of passing transformative legislation today. You know, this is America in so many ways. What are your thoughts on the fact that all of this is happening at the same time?

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Do you see a connection between, you know, the most diverse Congress that you are a part of currently and the demographic shift in America and also the rise in white vigilantism and an emboldened white nationalist movement in this country? Do you see a connection between all of these things?

MOORE: Oh, absolutely, Zerlina. You know, even though we`ve had a great day, we passed the Build Back Better Bill, the beef (ph), we still are unable so far to get voting rights and criminal justice reform, which, you know, we see that we need some sort of reform just from the decision that was made today.

I mean, you know, I don`t contest to what the jury decided given what was in front of them, but it really begs the question as to whether or not we are going to allow people just to run through the streets when they feel threatened to start to shoot people.

And so our inability to pass justice reform and voting rights is still an element that worries and concerns me about our ability to truly have a transformative society that looks at equality and justice for all. As you know, Democrats have some headwinds in terms of history with regard to keeping and managing the -- keeping control of the Senate and the House.

But I do think that with this build back better bill, we`re demonstrating who is actually contributing to the growth of our economy in a healthy way. I mean, think about the supply chain problems that we`ve had and yet we`re going to build up our ports and airports and we`re going to kill -- we`re going to work on stopping the virus, which, Zerlina, I said it today. My god!

Kevin McCarthy talked for eight hours and 32 minutes and didn`t mention the pandemic one time as being the reason that we`re having high prices and supply chain problems. Went on to blame it on kindergarten and giving people insulin at no more than $35 a month.

You know, I mean, you know, you would think in eight hours and 32 minutes, you know, all of this lust for that one minute on the floor, and he had eight hours and 32 minutes. And a congressional research paper report that told him that this -- you know, that all of this inflation, which is problematic, for gas prices, for food, is because of the pandemic.

And, you know, so it`s frustrating on many levels, but I feel that we`re going to be able to demonstrate within the next year that we have really improved people`s lives. People are going to see it within the next year with projects starting, with being able to get health care in places like Wisconsin, which couldn`t get the Affordable Care Act, and I am just thrilled. Like I said, this is a great, great day all in all.

MAXWELL: It was a roller coaster, but I think that a transformative piece of legislation like this one, we will see the impact on American lives and everybody is going to make the case for re-election next year. Kevin McCarthy, I guess the pandemic didn`t come to mind in that eight hours. Congresswoman Gwen Moore, thank you so much for starting us off on this Friday night. Please stay safe.

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