MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Dick Durbin

Interview

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MELBER: We are joined now by the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the number two ranking Democrat in the United States Senate, Dick Durbin.

Thanks for being here.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL), DEMOCRATIC WHIP: Good to be with you, Ari.

MELBER: You have done a lot of work about the DOJ, independents, restoring the rule of law.

What does it mean to you that this DOJ acted so swiftly to indict Steve Bannon?

DURBIN: I think they`re making it clear it`s going to be a no nonsense situation. They`re not waiting for any permission slips.

[18:25:00]

DURBIN: It`s a situation where people like Bannon are really out on a limb at this point. He speaks very strongly, a lot of bravado. But he`s not going to have Donald Trump writing a pardon message. This is a serious charge and it should be taken seriously. Obviously he still thinks he`s in a conspiratorial political game.

MELBER: We`ve also been covering the breakthrough on the spending as well as the push on the other bill. Your counterpart on minority leadership, Mitch McConnell, did a lot to try to block progress from the Biden administration.

But then did vote on final passage here for the infrastructure spending. Take a listen to what he`s saying about Build Back Better.

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Well, there`s no uncertainty about what the number one issue in the country is and it`s inflation. We have reputable economists who actually support BBB, liberal leaning economists who say, if BBB passes, it will only make worse inflation not only this year but next year.

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MELBER: Senator, your response on the policy and also on the timeline, which you and Leader Schumer have a lot of power over.

What should we expect on any impending vote?

DURBIN: Senator McConnell always leaves out one key element: we paid for this. This Build Back Better is paid for. Tax increases the burden of taxing, those making over $400,000 a year and corporations that got off scot-free.

Senator McConnell can`t get that in his head because, four years ago when he had a similar circumstance with the Trump administration and tax cuts, they didn`t pay for it. They added to the deficit.

We`re taking a different approach and one that`s really important to articulate when you talk about inflation. As long as we`re paying for this expenditure to help working families meet their cost of living and pay for it in a way that doesn`t add to the deficit, then that is a responsible thing in the midst of an inflationary situation.

MELBER: And with regard to when we might see a vote?

DURBIN: We want to get to it as soon as possible. There are several things. First, the Congressional Budget Office will report on Friday. Speaker Pelosi is talking about moving it in the House this weekend, before the Thanksgiving break.

Our goal is to get this done before Christmas break. So we literally have two or three weeks to get it done.

MELBER: It`s your understanding at this point in time that you`ll get that vote, because it was all that time where all everyone was hearing about was that question in the Senate.

DURBIN: I`m in a business where people don`t sign contracts on votes. They say they`re thinking about it. You like to try to read body language and a wink of the eye whether or not they`re moving in your direction.

Let me just say, the two principles we`ve been dealing with in negotiating have been front and center in these negotiations for months. I said to Joe Manchin, who is my friend, Joe, close the deal.

Let`s get this bill done for the good of West Virginia, the country and this president.

MELBER: And your reaction to the mixed message from Republicans, some saying the infrastructure spending is terrible; others claiming credit for it whether they voted for it or not.

DURBIN: They`re waiting for a cue from Donald Trump and Donald Trump is basically pillaring anyone, any Republican, who joined in this infrastructure vote.

This was a bipartisan measure in the Senate. I hope it is again in the future and viewed as such. We listed all of the top 10, they call themselves the G10 senators, Democrats and Republicans, at the bill signing ceremony.

They got up and spoke. President Biden invited Rob Portman. Come on up and speak. I didn`t agree with everything Rob said but Rob played a critical Republican role in writing this bill.

It should have been viewed that way by the House and the vote. But now death threats are coming down for the 13 House Republicans who joined the Democrats in passing this. On an infrastructure bill. That just tells you the level of animosity in politics at this moment.

MELBER: Yes. And finally as the January 6 investigation continues, writ large at this juncture, do you have enough evidence, sir, to draw a conclusion?

Do you feel this was a premeditated part of a coup attempt?

Or is it too early to adjudicate or judge that, in your view as a leader of the Senate?

DURBIN: In fairness to the investigation and the parties involved, I`m not going to jump to conclusions. I have my inclinations and my own personal thinking. I don`t think this happened spontaneously out of nowhere. I think there was something behind it. I think Bennie Thompson is doing a great job with Lynne (sic) Cheney.

[18:30:00]

DURBIN: Let`s let them do their work.

MELBER: Understood. Senator Durbin, always in the middle of the action but careful with your words, we appreciate you joining us, sir.

DURBIN: Good to be with you, Ari.

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