MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff

Interview

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Presumably the hope of those conducting the investigation is that the Bannon indictment would encourage Mark Meadows and anybody else to rethink a decision to defy subpoenas from the investigation. If that doesn`t work though, if that desired effect is not achieved, Congressman Adam Schiff predicted over the weekend the committee would, quote, move quickly to also hold Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows in contempt of Congress.

Should we expect that more indictments are coming?

Joining us now is California Congressman Adam Schiff. He`s chairman of the Intelligence Committee. He`s also serving on the investigation into the January 6th attacks.

Sir, thank you very much for joining us. Nice to see you.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Good to see you.

MADDOW: It was not much of a surprise given what we know about his turn through public life that Mr. Bannon was very pugnacious outside the courtroom today. He said he was going to take down the Biden regime. That is what he works on every day. Basically declared war on the January 6th investigation. That sort of bluster from him again not surprising.

It does appear strategically though he and his counsel will do everything in their power to slow down the proceedings and drag them out. Is that what you and your fellow members of Congress on this committee conducting the investigation, is that what you were expecting?

SCHIFF: Yes. In the sense that when Steve Bannon decided he was going to essentially ignore the law, ignore the committee`s subpoena, that he wanted to make a political issue out of this, to delay and drag it out as long as possible. Once again prove his loyalty to the former president.

But look, he had four years in which he was given the impression apparently that he was above the law. He was brought into the Congress before our committee when it was chaired by a Republican, refused to answer questions during the Russia investigation. Republicans refused to hold him accountable and then later he was indicted for stealing money from Trump supporters to build a wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for but of course didn`t and Donald Trump pardoned him.

So no wonder he feels like he is above the law. That`s run straight into a Justice Department no longer under Bill Barr but one that is devoted to equal application of the law. And I`m glad to see that is the view of the Justice Department. It is so important.

MADDOW: In terms of Mr. Meadows and whether or not he is going to find himself ultimately to be in the same predicament as Mr. Bannon, are there differences in the circumstances for these two witnesses?

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Have they handled the requests from the committee differently? Is Bannon defying the committee`s authority, the investigation`s authority in a way that`s more serious than what`s happening with Mr. Meadows, or are they essentially taking the same strategy and therefore Mr. Meadows should expect the same kind of treatment even potentially by the Justice Department?

SCHIFF: Well, they`ve taken the most significant step in identical fashion. That is they refuse to even show up. And there are broad categories of questions for both of these men that don`t go for example to any communications between them and Donald Trump. There are communications between, for example, Steve Bannon and members of congress, between Steve Bannon and the planners of the January 6th rally on the mall. None of that is even conceivably covered by any kind of privilege.

So in that sense, both men have the same fundamental position, weak position, that is they simply fail to show up and there is no right to do so. There are differences in the sense that Meadows was a current White House staff member. Steve Bannon hadn`t been in the White House in years.

So, there are differences but ultimately, those differences don`t affect the fact there is no immunity to simply say I ain`t showing up and that is probably the most significant factor when the committee decides what step is next.

MADDOW: Let me also ask you about a recent revelation about what happened on and leading up to January 6th that have been published in ABC News reporter Jonathan Karl`s new book, which is yet to come out but apparently is a jackpot of news even before it gets formally published. The latest revelation from Mr. Karl`s reporting is that there was yet another memo I guess we`d call it, another legal-ish argument put to vice president pence and his staff essentially directing him to overturn the election results to keep President Trump in power even though he had lost the election.

We know about one of those from John Eastman who has been subpoenaed by the committee. We know of another by Mr. McEntee who was working in the White House who made that argument to Mr. Pence. But now, a Trump campaign lawyer Jenna Ellis apparently put this sort of pressure on Vice President Pence telling him, giving him an instruction manual, to overturn election results and keep Trump in power.

Were you and the other members of the committee previously aware of that or is that news to you the way it was to all of us when Mr. Karl wrote his book?

SCHIFF: I can`t go into specifics about what we knew and when we knew it but I can say we have learned a lot from very good investigative journalism that has supplemented what we know and helped form many of our questions and even the choice of witnesses. So these kind of reports that are being published now can be really useful to us and our investigators and shows how much there is to expose to the public.

For those who say don`t you know already, the answer is no. There is so much we don`t know about what went into the pressure campaign against the vice president to try to call on him to force him to ignore his constitutional duty. We want to know what internal conversations and discussions there with about the bogus nature of these legal arguments to show the willfulness of these efforts to in an un-constitutional and corrupt way overturn our elections.

If we`re going to protect the country going forward all of this has to be exposed to the light of day.

MADDOW: Congressman Adam Schiff, chairman of the intelligence committee, member of the January 6th investigation. Congressman, thanks so much for your time. It`s good to have you here.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

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