MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Pramila Jayapal

Interview

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Joining us now is Washington Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus who has been a key player in these negotiations and remains so.

Congresswoman Jayapal, it`s really nice to see you. Thanks for being here.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): It`s great to see you, Rachel.

MADDOW: So, what happened with the passage of this bill on Friday? We`ve been talking for weeks if not months -- I think weeks at least -- about you wanting to pass, you in the progressive caucus, wanting to pass the infrastructure bill, and the Build Back Better bill together. One of them went without the other and exchange for a promise.

How strong is that promise?

JAYAPAL: Well, Rachel, first of all, five weeks ago, there was no Build Back Better bill. There was no negotiated agreement between the two senators that you mentioned, Manchin and Sinema, and the White House. And the House, there was no text. There was no vote to move the bill forward before the final vote at the end.

As you know, the Progressive Caucus stood up strong, not once, not just once but twice, to make sure that that we didn`t pass the infrastructure bill without the Build Back Better bill. And we made a tremendous amount of progress.

What happened on Friday, is that we were all set to pass both bills. At the last minute there were six Democrats who said they needed more fiscal information from the Congressional Budget Office. And that they needed a little bit more time.

I`ll tell you Rachel, our members of the Progressive Caucus were so strong, they were willing to continue to hold it up. But we had a caucus why discussion, and we decided, that what we needed to do was show momentum, by passing the infrastructure bill, if and only if we got an absolute rock- solid agreement, from the six, that they would vote for this bill, as soon as the Congressional Budget Office got that information to them, but no later than next week.

That is the agreement that we finally agreed to. I believe and I`ll tell you they made a commitment to me one-on-one, they made a written statement, they also made a commitment to the president, that they did not believe any information would change substantially from what had already been provided. And we would pass the bill next week.

Negotiation is always tough, but there is a moment where you just have to decide, whether it is going to get you close enough to what`s the original prize was. What was the original prize? It was to pass the Build Back Better Act through the House, and to actually get universal childcare, universal pre-K, biggest investment and housing, a real half trillion dollar investment and taking on climate change, making sure we protect our immigrants, these are all the major things -- health care, Medicare expansion, lowering the cost of prescription drugs, these are all the things in the Build Back Better Act, and, Rachel, we`re going to get it passed next week.

And that just would not have happened six weeks ago, five weeks, ago if the progressive caucus had not stood up strong, to say, this is what we are going to do.

[21:25:07]

No one left behind. MADDOW: Now, those members who said they would not vote until they got information from the CBO about cost, is there a decision on whether or not to vote for, it dependent on what the CBO says the cost is? I mean, if the CBO comes back and says the cost is going to be Y instead of the cost is going to be X, is that going to be justification for them, to not vote for the bill, and thereby leave you sort of stranded?

JAYAPAL: Well, the really good news is we got a lot of fiscal information from the joint committee on taxation and from the White House, that actually mapped out and said this is how much it cost, this is what the investments are, this is what the revenue will be.

And what they said is, we just want a few more tables from the CBO actually verifying this information that we got. What are written agreement says, is that, the written statement says this, as long as it turns out to be approximately ballpark with the White House is already given us, that they will be fine. If there is a discrepancy, they will work expeditiously with us to fix that discrepancy. The president committed that if there was a discrepancy, he would work very quickly with us to fix it, and to make sure we raise the revenue.

But, Rachel, everyone I`ve talked to, I don`t think we would`ve made this deal, if we thought there was going to be a discrepancy. Everyone we have talked to has said, that the CBO, you know, whatever these tables are that we`re going to get, are going to be the same as what the White House is represented the costs and the revenue to be. So, I feel confidence, and let me say we asked the White House multiple times, are you sure these numbers will match up, and they did say yes, we are very certain of that.

So, I think we`re going to be fine. Look, I think at the end of the day, sometimes, you just need to make sure that you`re not getting so stuck in your promise that you don`t see that actually this is now a $2.1 trillion bill, and we are going to have every single one, but perhaps will lose one, I`m not sure about one of the members, voting for this bill, which means we get a very strong vote from across the Democratic caucus, on this bill, to send to the Senate. And again, with all of our progressive priorities that we had articulated almost six months ago.

MADDOW: Washington Congressman Pramila Jayapal, chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus -- still very much in the thick of this, sort of in suspended animation right now between these two bills -- thank you for helping us understand tonight. Thanks very much.

JAYAPAL: Thank you, Rachel.

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