MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Ro Khanna

Interview

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Leading off our discussion tonight is Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. He`s a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

Congressman Khanna, you have, I know in other comments, isolated your focus on Senator Sinema. And that is becoming increasingly, it`s becoming increasingly clear that that is the unpredictable problem here. That`s where the secret discussions are going on, where we know absolutely nothing about what is going through her mind.

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Lawrence, you articulated it better than I could. And you put your finger on what I sensed is the problem. I have no problem with Senator Manchin. We disagree, I wish he would give us a number. But he is cordial, he is substantive, he will threat you with respect.

Senator Sinema is just not responsive. Her remark in I`m in the Senate was sort of a condescension to people working in the House. Lawrence, you served in the Senate. Io know you have great respect, you served for one of the great senators, Senator Moynihan. And my problem with Senator Sinema is not her ideology. Is the way she`s conducting herself and the fact that she is not being transparent with people, her colleagues, or with, frankly, the president of the United States.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told Rachel in the last hour.

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REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): If we vote for this underfunded, too small infrastructure bill alone, instead of voting for it with the rest of the president`s agenda, if we vote for it alone, it could make our climate crisis worse, and it risks being the only or the last substantive piece of legislation that we`ll pass. I do not believe, we do not have the assurances necessary to believe in good faith that reconciliation will pass if infrastructure passes tomorrow.

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O`DONNELL: If the speaking brings the bipartisan, the senate-passed bipartisan infrastructure bill to a vote in the House tomorrow, will it fail?

KHANNA: It will not only fail, it will fail overwhelmingly. A week ago, I would have told you there were 20 to 30 no votes. And Pramila and I and Katie Porter, we`re whipping folks to see where they would stand. Today, there are probably over 60 votes. It`s organic.

The reason it`s organic is people understand that we have been negotiating in good faith, progressives are willing to compromise. We`ve said, front- load the benefits, reduce the years if you want to get to a better number. But there`s been no movement with Senator Sinema. And people understand the frustration.

O`DONNELL: Do you expect the speaker to bring this to a vote, to show Senator Manchin, Senator Sinema and others that, no, you cannot pass the bipartisan Senate bill without passing the reconciliation bill?

KHANNA: I don`t think she will at the end of the day, because the collateral damage will be to the party, and frankly to the president. You don`t want to vote to fail, and certainly not with overwhelming numbers. And the deadline of Thursday, that`s the Senator Sinema deadline. That`s when she went and told the press, if it doesn`t pass by Thursday, I will walk.

Who does that? Who threatens the president, the minority, the speaker of the House, and the majority leader, saying if I don`t get my way, I`m going to walk? There are a lot of bills. If one of my bills passed the Senate, I won`t go to the speaker and say, if you don`t give a vote by tomorrow, I`m not going to vote for your bill.

So, there`s an immaturity in the way this is being handled. I don`t think the speaker will put the vote. I think she`ll say, let`s negotiate until we can win the vote.

O`DONNELL: Senator Dick Durbin, an experienced member of the Senate, is I think, at the end of his patience with both Senator Sinema and Senator Manchin. Let`s listen to what he said tonight.

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SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Now it`s time I would say for both senators, make your mark and close the deal. What is it that you want? What is your final goal? It`s time to stop talking around it and speak directly to it. I would say both of them, their point of view is different from mine, but it`s been respected, it`s been negotiated, and now it`s time to close the deal.

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O`DONNELL: Senator Durbin does not know what they want.

KHANNA: It`s remarkable. He`s the number two person. He`s so accommodating of senators. He`s not one to criticize his colleagues. And he`s trying to be inspiring.

He`s saying, look, we can actually do something amazing.

[22:15:03]

This is why you come to Washington to serve. We can actually help working class Americans. We can make sure they have child care, make sure they don`t have to go into debt if they go to community college.

We can make sure seniors can actually see a dentist, that they can actually get a hearing aid. We can actually tackle climate for the first time. The federal government can do something about climate. And we`re so close.

And Senator Durbin, I think he`s appealing to Senator Manchin and Senator Sinema saying, come on, let`s do something for our country, for our president. I hope they`ll listen.

O`DONNELL: What is your sense of where the speaker is on what her next move is?

KHANNA: The speaker would love for us to have an agreement and have a vote. And that`s why she`s keeping the possibility open. She`s very appropriately deferential to the president of the United States. But she will see if the votes aren`t there, which I don`t expect them to be, she`ll say, okay, how do we negotiate, how do we get everyone on the same page? We`ll work with the president to negotiate.

But I think she`s not used to this. I mean, Lawrence, you know, because you`ve been in the senate, it`s highly unusual for a first-term senator to come in, forget having their own agenda, defy the president of the United States, defy the Senate majority leader, defy the speaker of the House of their own party, and defy 99 percent of her colleagues. I don`t think I`ve never seen anything like that.

O`DONNELL: No, they never have. Congressman Ro Khanna, thank you very much for starting off our discussion tonight.

KHANNA: Thank you.

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