CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Josh Gottheimer

Interview

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And our next guest, Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey, has been leading centrist Democrats on both the infrastructure and social spending bills.

He is the co-chair of the moderate Problem Solvers Caucus and is one of six centrists who is holding up passage of President Biden's social policy bill until there's more information about its cost and how to pay for it.

Congressman Josh Gottheimer joins me now.

Thank you so much for coming in -- or for being on, I should say.

You were a key player in negotiating this agreement with the progressives. It allowed the bipartisan infrastructure vote to happen. I know you spoke directly with President Biden. Take us behind the scenes. What did he tell you and how did it play out?

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Well, first, thank you so much for having me.

And, obviously, this is a big win this week for the country and the people I represent in Jersey, in terms of investing in the infrastructure the secretary was talking about, our roads, our bridges, our rail, getting the Gateway tunnel between New York and New Jersey built, our water and broadband, so, so much.

And it was bipartisan, Democrats and Republicans coming together. And the president, we -- I must say, we -- there was lots of back and forth, of course, between some of my colleagues to get this across the finish line. The president really helped...

[09:10:06]

BASH: How so?

GOTTHEIMER: ... working with both sides, trying to bridge some of the divide.

Well, making suggestions. Part of what we were doing, Dana, and toward the end, is making it clear the information that we needed to move forward on the Build Back Better reconciliation plan.

And when we come back in a couple of weeks, I'm optimistic we will have that information from the Congressional Budget Office that will be consistent with the expectations that we received from the data and the White House and the Treasury Department, which I believe is essential to making sure that this bill is paid for and responsible, given how much good is in there, like reinstating the state local tax deduction with lower taxes, and helping with child care and pre-K and fighting climate change.

And the president really was just -- there were issues we were trying to work through and make it clear to our colleagues that we need that information to move forward to do the responsible thing, but that, immediately, we had to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure plan, which, as you know, Dana, has been sitting in the House waiting for action since early August.

BASH: Yes.

GOTTHEIMER: And you're talking about two million jobs a year on the line, and we wanted to get those shovels into the ground.

So, to me, it was -- he really helped bridge some of the divides, and we were able to move forward and get that vote done.

BASH: So...

GOTTHEIMER: And we're going to get to the president's desk now.

BASH: So, let's look ahead. All eyes are now on that $1.75 trillion package, new social safety net programs, climate provisions.

Here's what Senator Bernie Sanders said on Twitter about the timeline for passing the social safety net bill. He said: "Conservative House Democrats committed to voting for the Build Back Better Act no later than the week of November 15. Their constituents are watching. They must keep that promise, no excuses. Every Democrat must vote to address the needs of working families and climate change."

What's your response? Is it going to pass the House the week of November 15?

GOTTHEIMER: So, we -- in our statement, we made it very clear. And what we committed to was that we believe the information will be back on that week from Congressional Budget Office, more of the data to ensure that this bill is paid for and does the responsible thing fiscally.

And we plan to move forward, because it's going to meet our expectations, I'm sure. But, again, what's most important, and I'd say to Senator Sanders and to everyone, is that this bill is fiscally responsible and paid for. These investments are key for our country and for our future.

I talk about for the -- my district how important it is to reinstate SALT and get tax relief for middle-class families. There's so much in there that matters. So I think we should all celebrate for the country this past -- this vote. And, of course, we're optimistic about moving forward here.

BASH: I just want to be clear on what you're saying.

Are you saying if the Congressional Budget Office says it is paid for -- you want it to say it's paid for. But what your statement said is that if it is -- quote -- "inconsistent with the White House analysis," meaning it's not paid for, adds to the deficit, that you're going to keep working.

So does that mean you would be a no if that's what the CBO says?

GOTTHEIMER: What we understood, we received a slew of data this past week from the Treasury Department and from the White House and some early Congressional Budget Office analysis.

We're going to receive -- we're expecting to receive more in the next seven to 10 days. We expect it all to match up with what was presented, and we will move forward.

BASH: OK. That's...

GOTTHEIMER: I don't -- that is what I believe will happen.

And, again, Dana, I think we all agree that the reconciliation package, the Build Back Better legislation, is critically important for our districts, districts like mine. So my expectation will be that we will be moving forward, and we will have another thing to celebrate action, which is, Dana, really important for the country.

They want to see us moving forward for them and fighting for them.

BASH: Let me ask you the...

GOTTHEIMER: And that's what I expect will happen.

BASH: Let me ask you the flip side of that, and just directly. Do you need the Congressional Budget Office to say that the bill is paid for in order to vote yes?

GOTTHEIMER: What we're looking for are CBO tables, which score sections of the bill which we will be receiving, and we already have some data, so there's -- we expect the information we receive -- that we receive to be in line with what we received from the Treasury Department.

And we will, at that point, I'm sure, be ready to move forward. But we just want to make sure we get that data and that we're able to align it with what we have received ready.

Listen, I think what's most important for people to understand is, the responsible thing to do when you get a piece of legislation like this is to do a full analysis and to understand the impact on your district and the families in your district. And that's what I'm looking at to make sure that, when we vote for this and give the country this win, that we deliver the way we should deliver.

And so there's so much in there that matters for my district, from reinstating SALT and lowering taxes, as I said, to child care...

BASH: Well, let's talk about that.

GOTTHEIMER: ... to pre-K. So we want to get this done, yes.

BASH: Let's talk about reinstating SALT.

You know, progressives are opposed to the details of your plan. And SALT, of course, stands for state and local tax deductions, which were taken out in the Trump tax cut.

[09:15:07]

They say that it is beyond acceptable that the top 1 percent could actually get effectively a tax cut from this bill. Are you confident that what you are going for, which would allow wealthier Americans to have their tax deduction on a state and local level, will be included?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, first of all, in my district, in Bergen County, New Jersey, where the median property taxes is over $15,000, and a law enforcement officer and a teacher together are making $200,000, and their taxes went up in 2017 when the state local tax deduction was gutted by the red states.

For them, this is -- for working class and hardworking families, middle-class families in my district, this will equal a tax cut for them, because their taxes went up. So this is -- this is really about making sure we make life more affordable for them.

I get it. For Bernie Sanders, if you're in Vermont, it's a different situation, right?

BASH: Right.

GOTTHEIMER: The property taxes, I think median property taxes are $4,000, not $15,000, right? And the median income is not $100,000. It's $40,000.

So I understand it's a different place. But if you're in New Jersey, Northern New Jersey, where things are more expensive...

BASH: Yes.

GOTTHEIMER: ... this is a middle-class issue. It's about tax -- it's about tax relief for them. And that's why it's got to happen. And we have been working very closely with Senator Schumer and with Congressman Suozzi and Sherrill and Pascrell...

BASH: Right. GOTTHEIMER: ... and others to get this across the finish line,

because, where we live, taxes went up, not down, in 2017.

BASH: So, Congressman...

GOTTHEIMER: So, we have got to make life more affordable for them.

BASH: You mentioned New Jersey.

Your Democratic Governor Phil Murphy won his reelection on Tuesday by less than 3 percentage points in a state Joe Biden won by 16 points. The longtime Democratic leader of the state Senate, as you know, lost to a candidate who spent under $2, 500 on his campaign. What happened there? And how nervous are you about holding on to your seat in 2022, looking at what happened?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, the big lesson for me that night, and I think for a lot of us, is that people want action, right? They want results for our -- for families.

And whether that's clean drinking water or fixing the potholes in their -- when they drive to work, and so they don't have to spend hundreds of dollars a year fixing their cars, or not sitting on Jersey transit and getting those trains moving faster.

I think, to me, the lesson is, we need action for them. And that's why the infrastructure bill, getting that passed, the bipartisan infrastructure bill, which had 13 Republicans in the House and 19 in the Senate, truly a great bipartisan win for the country, is so important.

And I think, when we get the Build Back Better legislation across the finish line and get them SALT relief and tax relief and tax cuts for them, I think that's also going to help. But you got to get things done. And I hope that's the lesson everyone took. It's a lesson we took this week. It's why I worked so hard with my colleagues to get it across the finish line and get that first bill done.

And that's what I heard from the president.

BASH: Thank you.

GOTTHEIMER: He wants to get it done, which was why I was so grateful for his leadership. But that's why it's so important.

BASH: Thank you so much, Congressman. Thank you so much for joining me this morning.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for having me. Great to see you.

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