CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Bernie Sanders

Interview

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Well, joining me now is the chairman of the Budget Committee, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Thank you so much for joining me.

You have said there are major gaps in this plan. Several of your priorities, paid leave, dental and vision for Medicare, giving the government power to negotiate lower prescription drug prices for seniors, that's not in the deal.

You saw that House progressives...

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, it's not in...

BASH: ... endorse -- endorse the compromise.

Do you?

SANDERS: Well, it's not in the bill yet.

But what I can tell you, Dana, we are working right now. I spent all of yesterday on the telephone.

Look, we are paying the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. The pharmaceutical industry has spent hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to make certain that Americans pay 10 times more for some drugs than the Canadians or the Mexicans do. That fight continues.

And the fight to expand Medicare, look, poll after poll shows that the American people understand it is not acceptable that elderly people have teeth in their mouth that are rotting, they can't digest their food. They can't -- they don't have the vision that they need in order to read a newspaper.

So, we are continuing that effort.

BASH: So, can I just...

SANDERS: And it just pains me very much -- I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[09:20:01]

BASH: No, I just want to just make sure that I understand what you're saying. You're saying you're continuing that effort. You want to still add it before the House votes? You want to add it to the bill that the House is...

SANDERS: Absolutely.

Look, we're working. As everybody should know, we're on two separate bills. You got a bipartisan infrastructure bill, which will finally begin to address the reality that our roads and our bridges and our water systems are crumbling. That's one bill.

But we want to move both bills in tandem. And the second bill, the bill that deals with the needs of the working class of this country, in terms of child care, in terms of pre-K, that deals with the existential threat of climate, that bill is still being worked on literally today. It will be worked on tomorrow.

I believe we're making some progress in making it even stronger than it is.

BASH: If it -- if you don't succeed in that progress, will you support the framework as it currently stands, what the White House released at the end of the week?

SANDERS: Well, all I will tell you is we have a very, very strong bill.

And it deals with the fact that we are going to start paying attention to the needs of working parents, continue that $300. We're going to build affordable housing. We're going to make sure that elderly people and people with disabilities can stay at home, rather than be forced into a nursing home, et cetera.

We have got to demand that the wealthiest people in this country start paying their fair share of taxes. All I can tell you is, there is more...

BASH: So, is that -- it sounds like that's a yes. If you're not successful, you will support...

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: It's a very good bill. No, no.

But I am -- right now, I can tell you, I am -- worked yesterday. We're working today. We're going to work tomorrow to strengthen that bill.

It is outrageous that we continue to pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs...

BASH: Well, I want to ask you about that.

SANDERS: ... and that one out of four Americans cannot afford the prescriptions that their doctors write. That is not acceptable.

BASH: Let's talk about that, because that is one of the priorities that right now is on the cutting room floor, allowing the government to negotiate lower drug prices for seniors.

SANDERS: Right.

BASH: I have heard you talk about this hundreds of times probably.

I was told that Senator Kyrsten Sinema says she opposes it because it stifles innovation in the pharmaceutical industry.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: What do you make of that? And what conversations -- you're saying you're working on trying to change this. Are you talking to her? Do you think that she is convincible?

SANDERS: Look, this is not about Senator Sinema or Senator Manchin.

It's about 50 senators and the outrage that we do not have one Republican...

BASH: Yes, but they make up the math. They make up the 50 senators.

SANDERS: All right, but so do -- so we do all.

But here is the bottom line. Last year, the pharmaceutical industry made $50 billion in profit. Last year, the top CEOs made hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in outrageous levels of compensation, all right?

So the issue is, right now, the pharmaceutical industry is doing everything that it can to make sure that one out of four Americans is unable to afford the prescriptions that their doctors write. People are dying. The cost of insulin is totally 10 times more in this country than it is in Canada.

BASH: Will you vote for a bill that doesn't include that?

SANDERS: Now, anyone tells me -- pardon me?

BASH: You're talking about how important it is. Would you vote for a bill that doesn't include changing what you're describing as a very big problem?

SANDERS: I -- as soon as I leave the studio, I'm going to be going back home to get on the phone to make sure that we have it.

The American people, over 80 percent of the American people -- give you an example. Right now, the Veterans administration is paying half. Because they negotiate prescription drug prices, they are paying literally 50 percent of what Medicare is paying.

Does that make any sense to anybody? You got one government agency paying half as much as another government agency? That has got to be dealt with. We are working very hard to make that happen.

BASH: So, one of the reasons -- and I know you have spoken to him and you have heard him say publicly -- Senator Joe Manchin refuses to endorse some of the Medicare expansion in this is because he believes, believes that the inflation crisis in this country is very bad, and that, also on Medicare coverage, he believes that expanding Medicare, which is what you're saying should be done, will hurt the actual underlying -- will hurt the trust fund and make it hard for people to get basic Medicare.

How do you convince him that he's wrong on that?

SANDERS: Well, the way to convince him and the simple reality is, we are paying for this.

Inflation today is a serious issue, no question about it. But what we are doing in this legislation is demanding that the wealthiest people and largest corporations start paying their fair share of taxes. This bill is going to be totally paid for.

And in terms of Medicare solvency, I have no objection, I think it's a good idea that we raise additional revenue by lowering the cost of saving taxpayers money in Medicare and putting that into expanding Medicare solvency. I am supportive of that idea.

[09:25:06]

BASH: So let me just follow up on one part of this, which is, people don't understand maybe why there's such a fight here. And it is because there are philosophical differences within the Democratic Caucus, big ones.

And you say this is going to be paid for. Joe Manchin just doesn't believe it, and believes it will add to the debt and the deficit, and it will contribute to big government spending. And he doesn't think that's the way to go.

SANDERS: Look, I...

BASH: How do you bridge that gap?

SANDERS: Well, but that -- well, 48 -- well, let's also back up a little bit, and make sure everybody understands.

There are 100 members of the United States Senate. Unfortunately, we do not have one Republican who is prepared to take on the pharmaceutical industry, take on the private health insurance companies, not one Republican prepared to come forward to deal with the crisis of climate, not one Republican prepared to say to the richest people and largest corporations they're going to have to pay their fair share of taxes.

So, we're down to 50 people. And any time you got 50 people with different ideologies coming from different parts of the country, there are going to be differences of opinion.

BASH: So, given that reality...

SANDERS: And that is, believe me, what we are -- yes, what we are struggling with right now. BASH: Given -- sorry to interrupt you.

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: Given that reality, do you believe that House progressives should insist on a public commitment from Senator Manchin and Senator Sinema before they vote yes on either of these bills this week?

SANDERS: I think there has got to be a framework agreed upon in the Senate that all of us know is going to be implemented before the members of the House vote. Yes, I do.

BASH: And how would that manifest itself? Do you want them to make public statements? Do you want...

SANDERS: Well, it will be a framework.

Yes, well, you're going to have a piece of paper which will say, this is going to be in the bill. You don't have to have all of the legislative language. But you have to have a statement which says A, B, C, D, and E is going to be in the package and 50 members of the Senate are supporting it.

BASH: So, until Senator Manchin, Senator Sinema do that, you don't think the House should vote?

SANDERS: Well, I think that the House is -- I think we can put that together within the next short period of time.

Look, this thing has dragged on forever. But I think, when the American people see the results of what we are trying to do, and understand that, for the first time really in the modern history of this country, we are attempting to tackle the real crises facing working families, the massive income and wealth inequality that we have, I think the American people...

BASH: Yes.

SANDERS: ... will be very pleased and understand that government is now starting to work for them, rather than the big money interests.

BASH: And, just real quick, you have conversations with them, I know with Senator Manchin. He's not on board yet, it sounds like, based on your private conversations?

SANDERS: Look, I -- you know, we have 50 people that we have got to get on board.

BASH: OK.

SANDERS: This is not easy stuff.

But what we are trying to do is put together the most consequential piece of legislation in the modern history of this country, which will transform the role of government in protecting the needs of working families. BASH: Senator, before I let you go, switching topics, we are learning

brand-new information this weekend about more than 700 pages in documents that former President Trump is trying to shield from the January 6 committee, including handwritten notes from his chief of staff, call logs, visitor records.

What do you think he's trying to hide?

SANDERS: Well, I don't want to speculate. I don't know what's in the -- those documents.

But I suspect it will be the role that his administration played in maybe fomenting that insurrection.

BASH: Senator Bernie Sanders, chairman of the Budget Committee, it sounds like you have a very busy 48 hours ahead of you.

Thank you for your time.

SANDERS: Thank you.

BASH: Thank you.

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