MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Chris Van Hollen

Interview

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O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. He is a member of the Senate Appropriations Committee and Senate Budget Committee.

Senator, can you just cut the suspense for us and tell us what is going to happen on the debt ceiling and raising or suspending the debt ceiling by October 1st so that the country does not go into default?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Lawrence, I wish I could provide you assurances but right now we`re seeing Mitch McConnell once again be an entirely hypocritical, which is not surprising.

But I do think the country will focus on what they`re doing to all of us, the country, which is threatening a total economic meltdown, playing economic arson. As we saw from an independent study from Moody, threaten 6 million jobs and $16 trillion in lost wealth and more.

So this is what Mitch McConnell is prepared to do apparently for political reasons. I don`t understand the political calculus here because I think the American people will hold him responsible if there is damage done.

O`DONNELL: What is happening here is if the Democrats bring up a change to the debt ceiling Mitch McConnell is saying that Republicans will actually require a 60-vote threshold. They will block it. They don`t have to do that. It used to be that no one would dare try to bring a 60-vote threshold to a must pass bill like a debt ceiling or other things in the Senate but now, McConnell is saying, you will need 60 votes to do that. You won`t get the Republican votes. And therefore he is kind of in effect saying, Democrats should just do it in their reconciliation bill.

VAN HOLLEN : Well, you`re making a very important point, which is what Mitch McConnell and the Republicans should do of course is what they did throughout Donald Trump`s term, which is to vote to lift the debt ceiling. If they don`t want to do that, they don`t want to provide security for the country`s economy, at the very least get out of the way. Don`t block the Democrats from asking a vote to protect our economy.

But right now, he is threatening exactly that. He`s threatening to use the filibuster to cause an economic meltdown. You know, Lawrence, I remember back in 2008 during the financial meltdown when we had a vote in the House on the rescue plan. Nobody wanted to vote for it but Speaker Pelosi assured President Bush that enough Democrats would vote for that with enough Republicans we would prevent that kind of chaos.

What happened was Speaker Boehner delivered the Republican votes. We all were in the Democratic cloak room while we watched the stock market crash. And within 24 hours we had enough Republican votes to salvage the situation.

I hope Mitch McConnell doesn`t take us to that point but that is where they`re headed. If he wants to take us over the cliff and watch the economy crash because he is filibustering an increase in the debt ceiling, it will be totally on him and the American people will know it.

O`DONNELL: What about Democrats just doing it in the reconciliation bill?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, in order to put in the reconciliation bill we would have had to include it in the original budget resolution. And we decided for a variety of reasons not to do it that way.

And now we are where we are. And you know, Mitch McConnell doesn`t get some kind of concessions simply for getting out of the way in doing the right thing on the debt ceiling. As you know, we don`t just wake up tomorrow morning and say we`re not going to make our car payments or our mortgage payments.

And what Mitch McConnell is saying is the country should wake up the next day and just say to the rest of the world we`re not going to abide by our full faith and credit, you know. The United States is not going to pay bills already due and owing.

And that is a recipe for fiscal chaos and will hurt every single American. That is where it is taking us.

O`DONNELL: Well if Mitch McConnell is in effect inviting you to do it in the budget reconciliation bill, if you do do it in the budget reconciliation, then presumably Mitch McConnell would have the Republicans not raise any point of order against it and therefore it could just stay in. Parliamentarian is not going to challenge it on her own. They have to raise an objection to it to knock it out.

So is there any possibility that`s where, at that point that is where Mitch McConnell allows it to happen?

VAN HOLLEN: I think you`d have to go through lots of legislative summersaults to get back to that point. Here`s what he wants to do Lawrence. He wants to create the false impression that the money that would be required to raise the debt ceiling is the cost of the reconciliation bill.

And the reality is as you know we are working very hard with president Biden to make sure that we pay for the reconciliation bill through tax reform, by closing some of these big tax loopholes for multi national corporations that park their profits overseas by making sure very wealthy people pay their fair share of taxes.

But what McConnell wants to do is have in that reconciliation bill this price tag for raising the debt ceiling. Over 30 percent of that debt was accumulated in the four years of the Trump administration.

What he wants to do is have both that number in that bill so that they can totally mislead the American people in suggesting that the reconciliation bill costs, you know, trillions and trillions of dollars. That is his political play. And I don`t think we should fall into that.

O`DONNELL: Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you. It`s great to be with you.

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