MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Hakeem Jeffries

Interview

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Leading off our discussion tonight is Democratic Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York. He is the chairman of the House Democratic caucus. Congressman Jeffries, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

What was your reaction to what we`re learning in Bob Woodward and Robert Costa`s book about Paul Ryan`s interaction with Donald Trump and his preparation for dealing with what he considered to be, at minimum, a mentally unstable incoming president?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, it`s extraordinary, but the challenge in dealing with Donald Trump is that not only is he a malignant narcissist, but he of course is a psychopath and a pathological liar at the same time. That`s pretty complicated for an ordinary citizen. It`s incredible to have to deal with someone of that nature as the president of the United States of America.

The challenge that the Republicans have had is that they accepted Donald Trump for who he was and continues to be in part because of the desire for the acquisition and maintenance of raw power to accomplish their own policy objectives.

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In the case of Paul Ryan, that`s cutting taxes for the wealthy, the well off, and the well connected. And in the case of Mitch McConnell, that`s to jam right-wing Supreme Court justices down the throats of the American people to take us back to the dark ages.

O`DONNELL: So you`re Paul Ryan. You`re the speaker of the house. You`re second in line for the presidency after the vice president of the United States in the line of succession.

And you`re working with a president of your own party who you believe has mental health problems in the extreme. And he seems to have done nothing about it except come up with a tactic for verbally dealing with Trump himself. But he did nothing on the record that we know about so far to protect the country from this kind of president.

JEFFRIES: That certainly is the case, but things have deteriorated from there because I think Paul Ryan is fundamentally a good man. I disagree with him on policy, and clearly he had some challenges with Trump, could have done much more to articulate that publicly, but right now, you have a House Republican leader in Kevin McCarthy who is a wholly owned subsidiary of Donald Trump. And it`s solely because he sees Trump and Trumpism as a pathway back to House Republican control of the majority, which would be a frightening thing because it would functionally be Donald Trump running the House of the Representatives in partisanship with Kevin McCarthy and Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene and the rest of that group of individuals.

O`DONNELL: Can I ask what is the difference in effect between Paul Ryan as the leader of Republicans in the House and Kevin McCarthy as the leader of Republicans in the House?

JEFFRIES: It`s a great question. I think at least Paul Ryan had some policy goals and objectives that he wanted to achieve, most of which we disagreed with. But Paul Ryan was very helpful in working with some of us on the other side of the aisle, for instance in getting criminal justice reform over the finish line.

Kevin McCarthy is all about the acquisition of power. That`s it. There is no ideology. There is no policy concerns. There`s no effort to try to improve the lives of everyday Americans to work with us as Democrats to crush the virus or improve the economy.

And in order for Kevin McCarthy to achieve his ambition, he has decided that, I`m just going to bend the knee to Donald Trump. It doesn`t matter that he sparked a violent insurrection and attack on the Capitol that was an extraordinary event in American history and is dangerous.

Kevin McCarthy still hasn`t denounced this hate-filled, violent rally that is being planned on Saturday outside of the Capitol to defend the insurrectionists.

O`DONNELL: Are you satisfied with what you know to be the preparations for the security of the Capitol this weekend?

JEFFRIES: Yes. I know Speaker Pelosi has been in close communication with all of the security officials who are new. We have a new police chief of the Capitol Hill police squad, and we have a new sergeant at arms, and we have, perhaps most importantly, have a Biden administration that is going to take this effort seriously, not potentially hold back the National Guard to the extent the need arises.

O`DONNELL: Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York, thank you very much for starting off our discussion tonight.

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