MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Jeff Merkley

Interview

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O`DONNELL: And "Rolling Stone" is reporting, quote, "President Joe Biden and his advisers have said in recent weeks that Biden will pressure wavering Democrats to support reforming the filibuster, if necessary to pass the voting bill. According to a source briefed on the White House`s position, Biden told Schumer, Chuck, you tell me when you need me to start making phone calls."

Today the White House did not deny that report. White House deputy press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said, "as for the filibuster when or if the president has something to say about it, you will hear about it directly from him."

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon. He`s a member of the Senate Rules Committee and the Senate Budget Committee.

Senator Merkley, thank you for joining us. I know you have been a leader in the -- to try to get a voting rights bill through the Senate. What is the situation as of tonight?

SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR):Well, right now, I`m so pleased that a group of seven senators have come together, that includes Joe Manchin. We have worked to address a whole variety of issues that had been raised by various secretary of states or election officials regarding automatic voter registration, voter ID, gerrymandering, public financing and we reached an agreement.

And so we anticipate that a bill will be introduced tomorrow. That`s the plan as of tonight. Of course things are always shifting in the Senate.

And the fact is it will have the support of every Democrat and Joe will be working to solicit the support of Republicans. After all the integrity of our elections is fundamental to our constitution, fundamental to our republic and this should be something that all hundred senators should sign on to.

So hopefully we will have that Republican support. But if not, then we`ll be looking at how to get it done with 50 Democrats because we 50 Democrats are determined to defend the constitution.

O`DONNELL: Well, the only way you can get it done with the 50 Democrats is there will have to be a change in the Senate 60-vote threshold. That`s the reporting we were just quoting from "Rolling Stone" that President Biden is ready to go forward pushing a change in the 60-vote threshold in the Senate.

Is that what we`re going to see if the Republicans do not join this bill?

MERKLEY: We have seen such things in the past. The Republicans changed the 60-vote threshold on the Supreme Court. They changed the 60-vote threshold so that they could pass tax breaks for the wealthy. They changed the number of hours for considering lower court judges so they could stuff more judges, right wing judges into district and appeal court positions.

And what we`ll see is really the question of how do you proceed to do the responsibility we have as the majority in the Senate to make sure that we stop billionaires from buying elections, that we stop the evisceration of the concept of equal representation through gerrymandering.

How do we make sure that every citizen has access to the ballot when state after state after state, 18 states and 30 laws so far are designed to prevent targeted groups from being able to vote?

How do we do that? Well, maybe it is a carve out from the filibuster like some of these previous carve outs and maybe it is restoring the filibuster to be one that creates a balance.

And by a balance what I mean is something like the talking filibuster, which says there will be no tyranny of the majority. The minority will have time to pursue amendments, make sure the public can see the bill, that they have seen the bill that seeks compromises.

But there also won`t be the tyranny of the minority right now where the minority exercises a veto. That is a profound corruption of the democratic process that has to end.

O`DONNELL: So the sequence seems to be Senator Schumer is already saying he`s scheduling this bill to come up for a vote in the Senate as early as next week. Could it possibly even at the end of next week but certainly next week.

And it seems that if that fails -- if that fails to get the 60 votes, if Joe Manchin fails to get 10 Republicans to join this bill, is it at that point that Senator Schumer would then ask the senate, in effect ask Democrats in the Senate to vote to change the rule on the 60-vote threshold?

MERKLEY: Yes. I don`t think it will happen at that moment. That is that the dialogue will begin with the 50 Democrats, with the president of the United States saying how do we honor our responsibilities and the fundamental rights of all Americans?

[22:49:49]

MERKLEY: Is it through this carve out. Is it through a talking filibuster? Is it through some other mechanism? And that`s going to take some time to work that out.

But I really believe that we have to before the month of October is out, we have to get this voting rights legislation done. After all the states around the country are already redistricting with the new census data, and we need to have time for the states to prepare.

So the clock is definitely ticking, and a failure of that vote, if it`s held next week is what we anticipate will, in fact, say ok, Republicans are not going to join us. They`re not going to protect the rights of Americans. They`re too invested -- they support billionaires buying elections. They support gerrymandering to distort the representation of Americans in Congress. They support blocking targeted groups from being able to vote.

It`s like we`re going back pre-1965. So we must stand up and figure out how to get it done with 50 votes and a vice president.

O`DONNELL: You`ve been discussing this and working with Senator Manchin on this bill. And you just described an urgency, a timing urgency about this voting rights bill, that is related to the timing of the next elections obviously.

And I raised this question of urgency with Senator Manchin. And I`m wondering what his sense of urgency is on voting rights because over the weekend, of course, he said he doesn`t see an urgency about the completion of the Biden infrastructure package through the reconciliation process. He would like to actually slow down that process.

Does Senator Manchin see the same urgency in voting rights legislation that you see?

MERKLEY: Well, I certainly haven`t asked him that question in that fashion. But the fact that he has been deeply engaged in this working group to rewrite the bill and try to improve it in a variety of ways suggests that he sees the urgency.

After all, he was very busy with the bipartisan bill, he still carved out time to do this. He`s a former secretary of state so he understands how much lead time is required to be able to put a framework in place for the next election, so I certainly my impression is he shares the sense that the time really matters in this. And so I certainly hope so.

O`DONNELL: And is there a kind of legislation, legislating timing conflict now between voting rights and the completion of the reconciliation bill that would contain the remainder of the Biden infrastructure package?

MERKLEY: Yes, so we have the budget framework for the Build Back Better bill or reconciliation bill, and that goes out to the committees, and they have to put all the details in place.

This is incredibly complicated because of the size and significance and the number of topics that are addressed. Early childhood education, great. We`re going to pay for two years, how are we going to do it? Tuition free community college, what are the details? Addressing the Medicare and expanding it include eyes and ears and teeth. How are the details of that done?

So that`s going to take us absolutely through October, probably into early November I imagine, which leaves space right now for the intense floor discussion and caucus discussions regarding voting rights.

Remember, at the same time we still have to in the next couple of weeks get a continuing resolution because the fiscal year ends at the end of September. So that is there.

There`s a debt ceiling issue that we have to address as well. So it`s a crowded agenda, but I think there`s plenty of room to address voting rights while the committees are working on the Build Back Better bill.

O`DONNELL: What was your interpretation of what Senator Manchin said this weekend about the -- what he perceives to be the lack of urgency to the reconciliation bill?

MERKLEY: Well, Senator Manchin was focused on the numbers this weekend. His concerns about inflation. I`m hoping that what we`ll have is a caucus, or discussions that speak to and remind us of the urgency of the big challenges that Americans face, that working families cannot afford child care, that young people cannot afford college, that Medicare is incomplete by ignoring some of the most fundamental issues of sight and hearing and dental treatment, that the cost of drug prescriptions is outrageous, were being gouged and this bill addresses that.

So I hope those conversations will bring to the forefront how these things are deeply, profoundly supported by the American people and so important to the health of our nation.

[22:54:56]

MERKLEY: So I think that`s the pivot that I hope the discussions will take.

O`DONNELL: The interesting thing over the weekend is that Senator Manchin is now uncomfortable with the total number target in the budget resolution, but that`s actually something he voted for. He voted for the budget resolution.

Are his Democratic colleagues confused about his position now?

MERKLEY: You know, Senator Manchin and Senator Sinema both announced that basically at the time we were voting on that that they were supporting the framework to get the process moving but they were not comfortable with the number. So I don`t think there was any particular surprise there.

The question that we have is for a large part of the caucus, this number, $3.5 trillion was already a compromise. We started with $6 trillion. The Budget Committee worked very hard to get that $3.5 trillion compromise.

And so -- and we think that`s the number that`s needed to do these profound changes.

O`DONNELL: Senator Jeff Merkley, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it.

MERKLEY: Welcome. Thank you, Lawrence.

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