MSNBC "All In with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Joe Neguse

Interview

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Congressman Joe Neguse of Colorado is on the impeachment managers in Donald Trump`s second trial who successfully convinced 10 of his Republican colleagues to support impeachment, and he joins me here tonight. First, just your reaction to the story.

REP. JOE NEGUSE (D-CO): I think it`s a troubling development for the health of our democracy and our ability to function as a constitutional republic. I know Anthony. He`s a friend. I think he is -- you know, he`s a conservative Republican member. Him and I are of the same age. We`ve co- chaired a bipartisan caucus in the Congress.

We have many policy disagreements, but fundamentally, he is a patriotic American. And he chose to choose ultimately rather a country over party and put country over party during the course of that impeachment trial and refuse to capitulate to President Trump. And I think it is a deeply troubling sign that he no longer has a place within the House Republican caucus and I think a harbinger of things to come.

HAYES: Representative Meyer who was also one of the yes votes, freshmen, right? He`s just been elected. I remember him saying something to the extent that he had other Republicans telling him they were disposed to vote yes, but they were literally physically scared. And, you know, that`s partly self-serving, but I guess I`m curious, like, you know, there`s a certain level, which in the world of social media, people say all sorts of stuff, right? I mean, everyone sort of gets used to that.

It does seem to me like there`s a little bit of a difference in kind here to when you get the bull`s eye on you from the Trump MAGA folks that is different than the normal stuff.

NEGUSE: Oh, no question. I think there`s certainly a distinction and a difference. The threat is very real. And one of the distinctions of this particular era that we`re living in that I find so disturbing is the normalization of political violence, and in particular, the ubiquity of that violence across multiple areas of civic life.

You talked about it. I don`t think anybody would imagine that you`d have threats of violence against public health officials, local county clerks. Again, I think it is a warning signal, right, an alarm with respect to the health of our constitutional republic and whether we can continue to function in that way with this kind of normalization of political violence.

HAYES: And then, of course, you`ve got the -- you`ve got the ex-president stoking it. This is his comment on the -- on the folks that are, you know, pending trial. Some of whom are -- many of whom re out on bail, some of whom are still incarcerated. Our hearts and minds over the people being persecuted so unfairly relating to the January 6 protest concerning the rigged presidential election. In addition to everything else, it has proven conclusively that we are two-tiered system of justice. In the end, however, justice will prevail. That that voice in that message matter for the folks in that party.

NEGUSE: That`s right, it has not gone away. And one of my concerns is I think we have been lulled into this sense of complacency that the threats that existed on January 6 have somehow gone away. They have metastasized. It`s been under the surface perhaps because the former president no longer has a Twitter account and a Facebook page. They are not on the front page of the newspaper every day.

But rest assured they -- those threats still exist. And of course, as though you needed more evidence of that, we see the rally that`s scheduled to take place tomorrow literally nine months after the insurrection.

HAYES: Are you worried about that?

NEGUSE: I am. I certainly hope that there is no violence. That it doesn`t descend to the type of violence that we experienced firsthand on January 6. I was there at the Capital on the floor during the insurrection. I think that there were lessons learned in terms of our police posture and so forth. And so, I`m certainly hoping that it doesn`t descend into violence. But the mere fact that it is happening should concern every American.

[20:10:13]

HAYES: Yes. I mean, one thing I think is probably useful to communicate to folks is that, you know, I spent time around members of Congress like yourself. You`re not going around with huge security retinue. I mean, you basically live like normal people, right? I mean, and so, you know, this stuff gets in your head a little bit. I mean, I think you can see it.

I want to play what Gonzalez said, but just him saying that -- him saying that at times it really struck me, that this was the moment. Like, you show up in an airport, and I think someone like yourself -- like you`re used to just going where you go like a normal person. And to have -- you know, your kid is going to put their hand in the hand of a cop to go through the airport is really sort of unnerving.

Here`s what he said in a local interview.

GONZALEZ: The truth is, the environment is very toxic. And especially, you know, the dynamics inside our own party which have sort of stopped making sense to me in a lot of ways. We just seem to have lost the ability to dialogue and to reason, and to do it in a way that`s respectful and thoughtful inside of politics.

Our politics has gotten so polluted, that you know, that environment, for me personally, it`s just not one that that I`m willing to be a part of going forward.

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HAYES: There`s also a selection process here which I find really unnerving which is that, you know, who -- he was going to be replaced most likely, it`s very red district, with the kind of person who is a devotee of Donald Trump and maybe thinks the election was rigged. It probably -- that would probably be a litmus test in that race.

NEGUSE: That`s right. No, I mean, he committed the cardinal sin which is to go against the former President Trump. And I suspect his replacement will be a far right member who will adhere to that philosophy that has taken hold within the House Republican caucus. I couldn`t agree more with what Representative Gonzalez said. And I hope that more Americans listen to his message to the extent that we can actually debate policy issues in an intellectual way and not have this descend into threats, as you said, that pose real risks to those of us who have families and children and so forth.

HAYES: What is it -- what is it like on the hill right now? It was -- it was so palpably dysfunctional and tense and toxic for those first few months. I mean, I was just -- folks like yourself, come on at the right program. I was in conversation off the record with members of Congress, and it was just so clear that like, you guys were A, kind of traumatized, B, just in a very, very bad work environment, just as human beings in a work environment was clearly very bad. Has it improved?

NEGUSE: It`s hard to say, Chris, but if I was compelled to answer, I would say it hasn`t. It`s just as vitriolic as it was before. And again, I mean, think about the context in which we find ourselves in just yesterday -- today, rather, I`m sorry. It`s Friday. Our staff at the Capitol were encouraged not to come to work today because of another protest that was planned that could very well descend into violence.

HAYES: Congressman Joe Neguse who is my first onset guest in 18 months. I think the last time I was sitting in a studio with someone, it was like the mayor of New York being like, well, we`re hoping that it doesn`t go -- that`s really wild. So, it`s great to have you here.

NEGUSE: Good to be back.

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