MSNBC "All In with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Joe Neguse

Interview

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Congressman Joe Neguse currently represents Colorado`s second congressional district, and he joins me now. First of all, what is your -- I mean, I`m always fascinated by how members of Congress get their information about the redistricting, because obviously, it`s massively important and consequential for you. What is your understanding of where things stand and how possible it would be that you would square off with Congresswoman Boebert?

REP. JOE NEGUSE (D-CO): Well, good evening, Chris. It`s good to be with you. I found out the same way that members of the public did when the map was released by the commission late last week on Friday evening. As you said, of course, the maps could change and I suspect are likely to change.

The commission as an independent commission here in Colorado. We`re working as you know, to try to emulate actually the independent style of redistricting that we have here in Colorado at the national federal level through H.R1 and other pieces of legislation that we`ve worked on. So, time will tell ultimately as to what the final map looks like. Obviously, we`ll be prepared for any eventuality and any outcome.

Of course, this particular campaign, to the extent that the map lines were finalized in that fashion would be an interesting one, as you astutely described. Our worldviews couldn`t be more different. And obviously, we have a very different view as to governing and how to, you know, ultimately represent our respective constituents. So, it would make for an interesting campaign.

HAYES: Well, I want to -- I want to talk about that in a second. But you mentioned the independent commission. There`s something really interesting happening this time around in redistricting. So, some states like Colorado have an independent commission. There are other states Virginia and Oregon. And as the Colorado sun pointed this out, in Democratic control, Colorado, Virginia, and Oregon, new congressional maps drawn by Commission`s or bipartisan power-sharing agreements are unlikely to give the party the sort of political advantages it could have otherwise enjoyed.

Meanwhile, Republicans haven`t given up their power controlling the process in 20 states, including Florida, Texas, and North Carolina. And so, I think you and I both agree that as a policy matter, these independent commissions are much better than politicians picking their voters. But there`s a weird kind of unilateral disarmament that`s happened here where you`ve got states like yours that are quite Democratic and quite Democratic-controlled doing that, while the Republicans can just maximize the number of seats they put together.

NEGUSE: Well, I take your point. I mean, obviously, I agree with you that extreme and partisan gerrymandering has become insidious and pervasive across the country, in particular, Republican governed states, right, largely in states like Texas and Florida, where clearly you have legislators that will work to corrupt the redistricting process.

But I don`t believe that that fact ultimately, you know, compels or would warrant Democrats doing the same. Far from it. I think, as you said, as a policy matter, Democrats believe in good government. We believe in ethics and government. And that means independent, nonpartisan redistricting, which is you know, Chris, is wildly popular on a bipartisan basis across the political spectrum.

In Colorado, as you mentioned, this is a relatively new style of redistricting. It was approved by the voters themselves just three years ago by an overwhelming basis. And I think that the voters made the right call. Politicians shouldn`t be in charge of drawing district lines. That job should ultimately be one handled by a nonpartisan commission like the one in Colorado.

So if anything, I think it underscores, Chris, the real necessity for us to get serious in Washington about recognizing gerrymandering really is another form of voter suppression and why H.R.4 and H.R.1 ultimately need to get across the finish line to the residence test because many of these states, as you know, have already embarked on their redistricting processes.

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HAYES: Yes. H.R.1 would sort of create this process across the country. Last point, just to bring it back. I mean, to me, what this example shows is how powerful it is when you can control the lines, because you could sit down and draw a map that puts you and Congresswoman Boebert into the same district where she would trounce you. You could do one that you would trounce her.

Like, regardless of worldview or your abilities as members of Congress or whatever, like, there`s a certain degree to which drawing the maps is quite determinant of outcomes, not 100 percent, but pretty far. And you can really see it when you think -- when you think through this kind of thought experiments.

NEGUSE: Yes, well, I mean, again, I think it`s the reason why the nonpartisan independent redistricting commissions and reapportionment commissions in terms of state legislative maps are the way to go. At the end of the day, the voters should be in charge, and by extension, the citizen-based commission that we have in Colorado, and that we also have in many other states across the country.

And I think politicians candidates ultimately need to be comfortable with letting the chips fall where they may. And so, I`m certainly supportive of the measures that we`ve taken here in Colorado, and I hope that the Congress will get the message in doing the same in Washington.

HAYES: Well, if you open up a diner in Boulder where ever one has to pack, I guess we`ll know what`s going on. Congressman Joe Neguse, thank you very much.

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