CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview with Bernie Sanders

Interview

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BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Senator Bernie Sanders is back on the campaign trail trying to sell voters in Middle America on Democrats' $3.5 trillion plan to expand the child care tax credit, paid leave, along with new investments battling the climate crisis.

But, right now, his focus is on a key Senate Democrat he must convince to get any of this done, Senator Joe Manchin.

Here's Bernie Sanders.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Joining me now is the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee and the author of the reconciliation bill, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Thank you so much for joining me.

First, your colleague Joe Manchin just explicitly told me repeatedly he will not support your $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. He wants to see something more in the ballpark of $1.5 trillion. Is that acceptable to you?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): No, it's absolutely not acceptable to me. I don't think it's acceptable to the president, to the American people, or to the overwhelming majority of the people in the Democratic Caucus.

Look, we worked with Senator Manchin to pass the $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan, which was enormously consequential and helpful to working-class families in getting us out of the economic disaster that befell us as a result of COVID.

I believe we're going to all sit down and work together and come up with a $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill which deals with the enormously unmet needs of working families. We have got to lower the cost of prescription drugs for people. We have got to expand Medicare to include dental, hearing aids and eyeglasses. We have to maintain the $300 direct payment we're giving to working parents, which have lowered childhood poverty in America by 50 percent. And I will tell you what else we have got to do. The scientists will tell us that we got a few years left before there will be irreparable, irreversible harm to our planet if we do not address climate change.

And the truth of the matter is, Dana, as you may know, many of us made a major compromise in going from the $6 trillion bill that we wanted, supported by the overwhelming majority of Democrats, down to 3.5.

And the last point that I would make on this, I know that Senator Manchin worked very hard on what's called the bipartisan infrastructure bill, $550 billion of new money to rebuild our roads and our bridges. What we have worked on is working both of those bills in tandem. They go together.

And it would be a really sad state of affairs for the American people, for Congress, if both of those bills went down.

BASH: Do you think that's possible, that that could happen right now?

SANDERS: Yes.

I don't think it will happen. I mean, I think, look, this is a very difficult issue. What we are trying to do in this bill is more significant for working families than any bill probably since FDR and the New Deal. I mean, we're talking about expanding Medicare. We're talking about making sure that no working family in America pays more than 7 percent of their income for child care, making pre-K universal and free, putting a huge amount of money into affordable housing, creating millions of good-paying jobs, home health care, you name it.

This is a consequential bill. It is hard to put a bill like this together. At the end of the day, I believe we will.

BASH: OK. And I want to ask you about more of the substance in a second.

But the other thing that Senator Manchin is opposed to is the timeline. Chuck Schumer wants to have a draft of this reconciliation bill done by Wednesday. The House speaker committed to holding a vote by September 27. He said that's not going to happen, full stop.

Are you willing to give it more time?

SANDERS: Well, look -- well, I mean, a few days here or there, it doesn't matter.

But there is a sense of urgency. And a sense of urgency is that we live in a country today where the wealthiest people and the largest corporations are doing phenomenally well, while working-class people are struggling all over this country in terms of health care. You got 90 million people uninsured or underinsured. People can't afford to pay prescription drugs, can't afford to send their kids to college. Kids are leaving school deeply in debt. You got almost 600,000 people

in America who are homeless today. And you have got the climate crisis. Oregon is burning. California is burning. Siberia is burning. People are dying and floods in New York City, unprecedented rainfall.

[09:40:10]

There is a sense of urgency, which I think the American people understand. And what they want is, finally, maybe, just maybe, the Congress of the United States will act for them, and not just for the wealthy campaign contributors and the rich and the powerful, who, by the way, are pouring huge amounts of money, the drug companies, the insurance companies, fossil fuel industry, huge amounts of money in trying to defeat us.

BASH: OK, let's actually talk about that, because Senator Manchin said pretty explicitly he's opposed to the clean energy provisions that you are going to put into this bill as you write it.

He also wants to see more evidence that the child tax credit is working, and it's going to the proper people, not wealthier people, before making it permanent. He doesn't support raising the corporate tax rate as high as you want. So this isn't just about the overall dollar figure. It's not even just about the timeline.

It's a disagreement, a pretty deep disagreement, about some of the fundamental priorities that you have been talking about. How do you bridge that?

SANDERS: Well, but, Dana, please understand that, within the context of the Democratic Caucus -- and I hope everybody in America knows we have no Republican support for this.

We're talking about Mr. Manchin, but the real outrage is you got not one Republican who are prepared to extend the $300 direct payment for working parents, so that they can raise their children in security and dignity.

BASH: Yes.

SANDERS: Not one Republican is prepared to help us take on the existential threat of climate change.

Now, in terms of taxation, at a time when you have billionaires and large corporations in this country, in some cases, not paying a nickel in federal income tax, you know what, we should and can pay for this entire $3.5 trillion bill, which, by the way, extends over 10 years -- we should pay for it by demanding the wealthiest people, largest corporations in this country to start paying their fair share of taxes.

And if Mr. Manchin wants to pay for it completely, I am delighted. I know that Senator Wyden, chairman of the Finance Committee, delighted to work with him. We can do that.

BASH: Yes. And, again, what he's said is that that is one issue, paying for it.

But the broader question is the real differences on the question of your priorities here, but also just the raw math. You mentioned Republicans not being on board. I don't need to tell you this is a 50/50 Senate.

If Senator Manchin or even Kyrsten Sinema in Arizona doesn't support this, you will not get the votes. How do you get there?

SANDERS: Well, look -- well...

BASH: Are you are you willing to compromise on any of this?

SANDERS: I did. I compromised.

BASH: Additionally. I know you did. Additionally.

SANDERS: No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no.

Look, don't make this a Bernie Sanders vs. Joe Manchin issue. It is not.

BASH: Yes. No, and I'm not trying to. I'm trying to...

SANDERS: This is all after -- Dana, Dana, Dana, one minute.

BASH: As the budget chairman, you're -- you have a -- you have a negotiating position, you and other -- and the White House and the leadership.

SANDERS: Yes.

BASH: So I don't mean to make it about you.

Just how do you, the Democratic leadership and the White House, get to a place where there's something that can be done?

SANDERS: Well, I think -- well, I will tell you how we get it. I tell you how we get it, because the American people are going to speak out on this issue.

Every single poll that I have seen, whether you are a Democrat or working-class Republican or an independent, overwhelming support for this bill. The president of the United States wants it.

Now, this is not like a 50/50 split in the Democratic Caucus. You may know this. I'm chairman of the Budget Committee. On the Budget Committee are 11 Democrats. Nine of them were prepared to support a $6 trillion bill. I would guess at least 40 Democrats out of 50 understand that we need at least $6 trillion. So that's already been a significant compromise.

But the bottom line here is, if you think about the House as well, these two bills, the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the reconciliation bill, are marching down the path together.

BASH: Yes.

SANDERS: Mr. Manchin, I know, worked very hard on the bipartisan bill. It would be a terrible thing for the American people if both of those bills fail -- failed. They are linked together. They're going to go forward together.

BASH: Yes.

And that's my final question to you, because you know that a lot of your fellow progressives in the House are saying explicitly they will not vote for the infrastructure bill that's already passed the Senate.

SANDERS: Right. And I agree with them.

Dana, let me be clear. I think they're doing exactly the right thing, because promises have been made. Agreements have been made. We want a physical infrastructure bill. We have to rebuild our roads and our bridges. That's important.

Human infrastructure is more important. We cannot continue to have elderly people unable to hear, no teeth in their mouths, children who can't get decent child care. We cannot afford not to deal with climate. We have got to do that in this unprecedented moment in America history.

[09:45:00]

Two bills go together. At the end of the day, I believe we're going to pass them both.

BASH: Senate Budget Chairman Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for joining me this morning. Appreciate it.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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