MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Pete Aguilar

Interview

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Joining our conversation, California Congressman Pete Aguilar who serves on the January 6 Select Committee, and Frank Figliuzzi, former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI and MSNBC contributor.

[21:40:07]

Thank you both for joining us tonight.

Frank, I`m going to start with you because I want to try to understand what people maybe outside law enforcement can`t see about the trauma that the officers that responded to January 6th must still be enduring.

FRANK FIGLIUZZI, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: What we`re still doing is we`re still learning of the casualties of what happened at the Capitol. These officers, four of them now, ruled death by suicide, are casualties of a battle that took place in the course of defending our democracy. The culture of law enforcement is a closed culture. It`s a culture in which seeking help may be seen as a sign of weakness.

But it`s clear at least to me that when you have four officers from two different departments, Washington Metropolitan Police and the Capitol Police, who are experiencing death by suicide, then one commonality is their battle for us, the battle for democracy on January 6th. Then that seems to be linked to their demise.

And those two departments have got to collaborate on an in depth study of what happened and why but most importantly, most imminently, they must offer very professional experienced help, even mandated if necessary. Because while we don`t keep accurate statistics on officer suicides in this country, the available statistics we have seem to indicate that suicide may be the number one cause of death for police in this country.

WALLACE: Congressman, you don`t have to be an expert to understand that trauma is exacerbated when people deny both the trauma and the traumatic event itself. Is there nothing of a break through that can be reached with your Republican colleagues to at least honor the sacrifices made by the men and women who protected all of you that day?

REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): Well, first our thoughts and our prayers go out to these officers` families and their colleagues. And as Officer Dunn noted, his plea for his colleagues to seek the help that they need. You know, we`re going to continue to offer the resources we can. The best way to honor our law enforcement heroes who were that last line of defense on democracy on January 6th is to get to the bottom of what happened leading up to January 6th and the role that the big lie played.

But also we passed a supplemental appropriation bill, a fancy term for more resources for the Capitol Police and the National Guard. But making sure we put those resources into wellness for these officers. Those are the types of things we can do if we really want to honor their commitment that day.

WALLACE: Frank, what would you say is the most important thing to make sure that these first responders understand that the vast majority of Americans do, as you write today, have their back?

FIGLIUZZI: It`s important for them to get up out of the rabbit hole that law enforcement officers often find themselves in. It`s often an "us versus them" mentality. You only speak to each other. You only get your news from a certain source, and boy, doesn`t that describe many Americans today.

They need to get their heads up and realize that the vast majority of America is with them because they were with us and that we are rooting for their success. We want the changes to take place at the Capitol. We recognize the incredible security review done by retired General Honore. We recognize there is a sitting select committee to get to the truth, get to the bottom of this.

That`s the majority of America. That`s what they need to know. That`s what they`re protecting is truth and freedom and justice.

WALLACE: Congressman, you talked about getting to the truth of what was behind the attack. It seems increasingly clear that will include subpoenas for some of your Republican colleagues in the House. When are those expected to go out?

AGUILAR: Well, I`ll let the chairman speak for the timing of this, but what he has said and what we have said very clearly is that no one is above a subpoena. And we will get to the truth. And we will use every tool available to compel folks to help us get to the truth.

But as you mentioned, that isn`t just what happened on January 6th. It`s everything that led up to this. How is this funded? How was this organized? What role did these groups play in trying to overtake our democracy, trying to overrun the Capitol.

So, if we truly want to honor those law enforcement professionals, we look to them.

[21:45:03]

And they told us directly last week seven days ago, they told us to get to justice and accountability. That`s exactly what this select committee will do in a non-partisan way with Democrats and Republicans around that table.

WALLACE: I believe the exact quote, their directive to you was that when there`s a hitman, you send the hitman to jail but then you go and find the person who hired and paid for the hitman. That was their request of all of you.

Congressman Pete Aguilar of California, and former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI, Frank Figliuzzi, thank you both so much for joining us tonight and being part of our coverage.

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