MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Ted Lieu
Interview
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JOHNSON: And here`s the thing.
Just because the committee is put together, that, again, won`t stop some of these violent insurrectionists. They don`t, clearly, care about the law.
What do you see happening within the Congress? What has to happen within Congress to also tamp down the irresponsible members who are still perpetuating these lies and stoking this kind of violence in the world?
LIEU: There is one way to reduce further political violence, and that is if Republican leaders would simply say one truthful sentence: The election was not stolen.
Because they`re unwilling to say that simple truth or sentence, you have people believe in conspiracy theories that the former president is somehow going to become president again in August. You now have Capitol Police having to open up satellite offices in Florida and in California to protect members of Congress.
And you have got a radical right Republican Party that is becoming completely insane right before our eyes.
JOHNSON: You ain`t got to lie, Mitch McConnell. We all know who actually won the election. But Republicans are not willing to let that go.
In fact, Cornell, this is something that`s equally disturbing. We see Republicans running across the country as secretary of state. They`re seeking secretary of state positions across the country, in the hopes of overturning any election next year that is not in favor of the Republican Party.
As a pollster -- look, I`m an academic. I`m a political scientist. You`re a pollster. We both get beaten up for our predictions from time to time. But, as a pollster, what does it mean that we could possibly have elections -- we already saw what happened with Brian Kemp in Georgia two years ago? What does it mean if we have a whole bunch of corrupt, conspiracy-believing Republicans in charge of elections in these states?
I mean, does that mean all polling and functional elections are out the window?
CORNELL BELCHER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it means our democracy ends.
JOHNSON: Yes.
BELCHER: To be -- quite frankly, it means our democracy ends.
I think every American -- and, look, Congress -- and hats off to Congressman Lieu and what they`re trying in Congress. But, to a certain extent, Americans` democracy is in the hands of Americans. And it`s in the hands of those millions upon millions of Middle Americans who don`t believe the lie, and are far more worried about how to pay their kids` college tuition and struggling with health care costs and infrastructure than they are with Donald Trump being in power.
But also understand, my friend, that this idea of this election being stolen, it does make sense to them within their framework, because their country is being stolen. And this goes back to -- and I think you and I have had this conversation before.
JOHNSON: Yes.
BELCHER: I mean, this goes back to the Tea Party with take -- we got to take our country back.
Well, we literally have tribalism on the rise, where people think that their country is being taken by the political empowerment of, quite frankly, people who look like are on your panel right now. And that`s not sitting well with them.
And, Jason, they are not giving up power nice and easy, as you see them marching through the streets of Philadelphia.
JOHNSON: Right.
BELCHER: And quite frankly, this will get worse as we inch closer to majority-minority in this country, before it gets better.
JOHNSON: You got to be particularly bold to march in Philly. I just want to point that out.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: And that`s part of what`s dangerous, when these white nationalists are deciding that they want to try and march in Philly.
Dr. Greer, one of the other things that concerns me, as I have seen this sort of change and this sort of ignorance, is the way in which Republican and the far right and white nationalists are trying to whitewash what happened six months ago.
Andrew Clyde, the guy who famously said that the people who attacked the Capitol really just looked like a bunch of tourists, even though he was screaming and hiding behind Capitol Police officers when the attack happened, I am amazed by these Republicans who can try to sugarcoat the insurrection, and then celebrate the Fourth of July last weekend.
Can you explain to me that sort of grotesque hypocrisy?
CHRISTINA GREER, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: No, Jason, because it`s cognitive dissonance of the highest order.
I mean, you can`t have Mitch McConnell on the floor of the Senate saying that this is Donald Trump, and he knew what he was doing, he stoked these flames, and then fast forward six months, he says, well, I don`t really know what we were talking about, that didn`t exist.
So this amnesia that Republicans, this selective amnesia that they choose to have to not only whitewash our history, 18 -- or 1619 Project, right, but also something that happened January 6, 2021, is part of a larger narrative of Republicans.
And I agree with Cornell fundamentally that this started in 2010. I might back up a little bit and think about Ronald Reagan going to Philadelphia, Mississippi, and declaring that he`s going to run for the presidency. I might then talk about George W. Bush and America first, when we are engaged in two, not wars, altercations, if you will, overseas, because we keep changing the definition of what that is, for financial reasons.
And then fast forward to 2010 and then 2016. So this is part of a larger Republican project that they have been doing to try and whitewash -- and I refuse to use the term majority-minority, because, like, we are not only a global majority, as people of color, but we are now soon to be a majority of the United States.
And that is part of where this angst and this anxiety and this straight-up violence is coming from, not just on January 6. But if we look at cities and towns across the country, we have seen it now for years upon years, not just with black Americans, not just with immigrants, not just with Asian Americans and the Latinx community.
We`re also seeing it with our Native brothers and sisters as well. And it`s part of a larger conversation that so many Republicans just fundamentally refuse to have and acknowledge.
JOHNSON: And while I love the deep cut of going back to Philadelphia, Mississippi -- this is why I like having professors on -- we also can`t ignore that there was one little gap that you mentioned there, when you jumped from the `80s to 2010, is the black guy who got elected president in 2008.
And I think that seriously ratcheted up this sudden question about what the integrity of our elections are like. That`s one of the other things that comes into play.
And I want to ask you this sort of as a follow-up, Dr. Greer. When we are looking at the possibility of people literally running for office with the intention of overthrowing the government, is there anything that we can actually do?
I mean, you can`t change the criteria under which somebody runs for office. But if 30 percent of the Republican Party is running, saying, I`m going to make sure that, when I get into office, black, brown, tan people and poor people can`t vote, what are the options on the table?
GREER: Well, I think the great thing that happened in the four years of the Trump presidency...
(HORNS HONKING)
GREER: Sorry, I live in Brooklyn, even though I`m a Philly girl.
One of the great things that happened under the Trump presidency is that so many Americans learned about the various levels of government and they recognized, as Cornell said, democracy isn`t something that we can just put on the wall, admire it and walk away. We have to be active participants on a daily basis.
So, if that means that more Democrats are paying attention to what a secretary of state actually does, if they`re contributing $5, or knocking on doors or getting involved in more local level politics, to make sure they actually cut people off in the pipeline who are sort of spouting these the big lie, and really supporting candidates that fundamentally want to work on the Democratic republic, then that, I think, is a positive that can come out of this, because so many people are either inspired to run or inspire to support quality members of not just Congress, but local levels, to make sure that they get in and actually work on behalf of truth and democracy, and not the big lie.
JOHNSON: Exactly.
And no problem with the honking horns. The fireworks in L.A. stopped about 10 minutes ago. So we`re good.
Ted Lieu, Congressman Lieu, I have to ask you this, because one of the other concerns that I have about the people who we have running now and what has overtaken the Republican Party, even though, again, as Dr. Greer mentions, this has been going on for a very long time, is this sort of pride with which they take in simply not doing their jobs.
I want to play this clip from Mitch McConnell and get your thoughts on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Well, it passed on a straight party-line vote. Not a single member of my party voted for it. So you`re going to get a lot more money. I didn`t vote for it. But you`re going to get a lot more money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: So, COVID relief act passes, all sorts of things pass with no Republican support. And yet they BRAGG:, and they`re throwing out the money that they have gotten through the political efforts of Democrats.
First off, Congressman, what`s your immediate response to this, just seeing this video? And, second, how do we move past this, if you have one party that simply wants to sit on their rump the whole time, and let the other side actually vote and pass legislation that all constituents are going to benefit from?
LIEU: It`s sheer hypocrisy by the radical right.
At the same time, I note that Leader McConnell and Republicans did give people a lot of money. It`s just that those folks were corporate folks and the 1 percent of our nation. So it`s not as if Republicans didn`t do the same thing. They just chose to give it to the top 1 percent of our country.
Democrats are benefiting the 99 percent. And what we do see is the American Rescue Plan being effective. We got shots in the arms, kids back into schools, people in their jobs and cash in their pockets. So, the plan is working.
And, at the end of the day, Americans will see that their life is better now than it was under Donald Trump and Republican control.
JOHNSON: Cornell, thinking about Americans say, OK, our lives are better now, how have the numbers, how have polls and public sentiment change in this six months since insurrection?
We have seen Biden`s numbers go high, drop a little bit, get a little bit better as the economy has improved. We have seen Republicans become more comfortable with the big lie. What are some of the big trends that we have seen in polling that have changed in the six months since we came this close to losing American democracy?
BELCHER: That`s a really good question. And thanks for asking me that question.
One of the big trends I think you`re seeing in polling is -- and this may not seem like a big deal, but it is, because the direction of the country is actually improving. People are being more optimistic about how things are going in the country and the direction of the country.
Underlying sort of the idea that the country is heading in the wrong direction is still, it`s not the economy, stupid. It`s the division. And especially from a qualitative standpoint, when you talk to voters in focus groups, especially women voters, and particularly moms, they are very anxious about what the future means for them and their kids if the country keeps moving in this direction, with this all -- and with all this division.
And I have got to double down on this ideal of what we must do, because I`m scared. We have got to double down on the ideal of getting more of those suburban moms` skin in the racism game.
And what I mean by that is, it`s been too easy historically for our white brothers and sisters in the suburbs to say, oh, that`s their problem, right? It`s not something that we have to worry about.
With what`s happening in our country right now, they have to understand that they have skin in the game. And it`s not OK for them to let Mitch McConnell Republicans keep getting away with this, because, if you do, democracy ends, right?
The moment, Jason, they overturn one of these elections...
JOHNSON: Yes.
BELCHER: ... everything goes up in smoke. Like, our democracy must end.
And I know that sounds terrible and frightening. But Middle America must be afraid, they must be terrified at what`s going to happen in this country if we keep going on this slippery slope. That`s the only way it`s going to stop.
JOHNSON: Cornell, I keep saying that the president needs to go to the suburbs and say, look, when you want to take Hunter and Tanner to school, you don`t want to have to wait in line six-and-a-half-hours. That`s why we need to pass the For the People Act and things like that.
Thank you so very much. Congressman Lieu, Cornell Belcher, and Professor Greer, thank you so much for starting off our show.
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