MSNBC "All In With Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Bernie Sanders
Interview
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SANDERS: OK, what we`re talking about is the understanding that for decades, working families have been struggling, the very rich have been getting richer, and you got billionaires and large corporations that pay in a given year, nothing in taxes. Point number one, this bill will substantially raise taxes on the richest people in this country and the largest corporations. That`s number one.
Number two, for decades, we have ignored the needs of working families. Everybody knows that we have a childcare system which is dysfunctional. In my state, $15,000 a year, that`s about average nationally, pre K, the same. We have a higher education system where kids can`t afford to go or leaving school deeply in debt.
[20:25:13]
Under the proposal we are bringing forth no family in America would pay more than seven percent of their income for child care, universal pre K, free tuition at public colleges and universities. This legislation ends the international disgrace, Chris. We`re the only country on earth that doesn`t provide paid family and medical leave. We`re going to end that.
We are going to deal in the most aggressive way imaginable with the housing crisis where you got to 18 million families paying 50 percent of their limited incomes on housing. We`re dealing in the other bipartisan bill with the physical infrastructure. And of course, we are making the largest investment in this country`s history and transforming our energy system away from fossil fuel to combat the existential threat of climate change, among many other provisions.
In other words, what the President has done, and what we have done is said, you know what, let`s look at the crises facing working families and the planet. Let`s address those crises.
HAYES: There`s one specific part of the climate legislation that I`ve been very focused on, which is the clean energy standard. And it`s really important. You know, many states have this. It requires states to have a target for how much of the electricity is produced by non-carbon sources. We don`t have a national one. A lot of climate folks think this is one of the key mechanisms. That`s in the bill right now, right?
SANDERS: That is in the bill, and that`s going to stay in the bill.
HAYES: OK, now, here`s the thing. And I know -- I know, you hate to talk parliamentary stuff. I know you do. I don`t like it either.
SANDERS: As a matter of fact, I do. You`re right.
HAYES: OK, OK, so -- but the clean energy standard is a great example, right? Key policy, a really good policy, I personally am very happy to see in the bill, I`ve been really focused on this, it cannot go through reconciliation?
SANDERS: Well, the way -- it can go. And look, we are dealing with -- I won`t bore everybody with Senate rules, reconciliation, and the bird rules, but we are going to achieve the goals that the President has brought forth in terms of the reduction of carbon. So, we`re going to do it in the best way that we can do it, and among many other provisions.
I mean, we`re going to be talking about moving aggressively in transportation, you know, moving toward an electric transportation system, dealing with agriculture, dealing with weatherization, making sure that our power plants are not reliant on carbon, but sustainable energy.
Also, I should tell you, we`re investing tens of billions of dollars in something that I personally am very excited about, and that is a civilian climate corps. We`re going to give hundreds and hundreds of thousands of young people who believe passionately in the need to reverse climate change the opportunity to earn good pay, and get an educational benefit as well, to help us combat climate change.
So, add it all together, you know what, in my view, this is probably the most consequential piece of legislation since the 1930s.
HAYES: Yes, I mean -- so, I want to play what Joe Manchin said. This can be passed without Republicans though reconciliation. It has to be -- it has to pencil out, right. It can`t it can`t be deficit spending. Again, my understanding about the rules here. So I want to play what Manchin said which was, he sounds like -- it sounds like people are open. Everything I`ve heard from Democrats today is basically more or less on the same page. This is what he had to say. Take a listen.
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SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I`ve been very clear that I want to see the pay for. I want to make sure that whatever we do is going to be globally competitive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is $3.5 trillion too high?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you said -- but you`ve been --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is $3.5 trillion too high?
MANCHIN: It depends on what we pay for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: So there -- the point is this is already penciled out? Like everyone who worked on this has done the math, right? Am I correct in that?
SANDERS: Yes. Yes.
HAYES: So, the -- yes. So, there`s going to be -- there will be I`m sure fights and wrangling about specifics in this.
SANDERS: There will be.
HAYES: But the last thing I want to say to you is this. There is something fascinating here happening when he talks about the New Deal where I feel like I`m watching a kind of a new model of legislating, which is basically this. It`s like, here`s what the Democrats ran on. Here`s the Democratic agenda. It`s almost like parliamentary where Biden and the rest of the party got behind these big infrastructure investments and climate and the care economy. And what you`re coming forward today is basically like saying, here it is all together. One thing, we`re not going to pass it piecemeal, we`re not going to, you know, do it out of these committees. This is -- this is the agenda right here. Is that a fair way to sort of characterize what we`re seeing?
[20:30:08]
SANDERS: Well, Chris, we cannot pass a piecemeal because to do it through regular order, you need 60 votes. We`re not going to get one Republican vote.
HAYES: That`s right.
SANDERS: And the other point that I would make was, and I believe this passionately, is that at a time when so many Americans believe that government has forgotten them, turning their backs on their needs, what I hope this legislation will do is restore the faith of the American people that the government can represent ordinary Americans, not just the wealthy and the powerful and their lobbyists. So this, in many respects, is a transformative piece of legislation.
HAYES: All right, Senator Bernie Sanders from the Budget Committee, it`s a fascinating day and a lot -- a lot of interesting things to play out ahead of us. But thanks so much. Come back soon.
SANDERS: OK.
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