MSNBC "All In With Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Bernie Sanders
Interview
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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, from day one, Republicans opposed adding a supplement to normal unemployment, and at a time when tens of millions of people are working for starvation, wages, their theory is, if you have low unemployment benefits, you can stop people back to work.
And obviously, I think that that is unacceptable. I think one of the things that`s happening is a lot of people right now are rethinking work. And they`re sick and tired of working for wages that are totally inadequate. And that is why, by the way, we are moving aggressively to a reconciliation bill, which is going to create millions of good-paying jobs, rebuilding America in many, many ways.
HAYES: So, you segue to what I want to talk about on the reconciliation bill, a lot of back and forth on this. There`s, -- here`s how I understand the state of play. There is going to be a reconciliation bill. Everyone agrees on that up to Joe Manchin, right? There are 50 Democrats ready for that, and President Joe Biden. So, that part is clear, right? I`m right that there will be a reconciliation bill that moves this year.
SANDERS: I expect that that is true.
HAYES: OK. What is in that bill, the size of it, and whether whatever infrastructure compromise is ultimately signed the only contingent on his passage, or the things being fought over right now? Is that also right?
SANDERS: Chris, one of the things that have bothered me in the last month or so is this, a lot of talk about numbers, $6 trillion, big number, a lot of talk about process. You know, what there is not a lot of talk about? About the needs of working-class Americans and what we have got to do.
So, the truth is that real wages in America today are lower than they were 48 years ago. The very, very rich are getting richer. And what some of us are saying is if we`re going to retain the faith of the American people in the government, we`re going to have to stand up for them\ and not just the big money and trust.
So, let me just tell you, what is going to be in this bill. First of all, you got to deal with climate. Right now, the West Coast is, you know, a flame in a sense. It`s record-breaking, heatwave, Australia, etcetera. We have got to deal with climate. And if we do not significantly invest in transforming our energy system, future generations will never forgive us.
Today, Chris, we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country on Earth. That is why we have to extend or make permanent the child tax credit $300 per child for working-class families. Does anyone deny that our childcare system is totally dysfunctional? We`ve got to deal with that.
In the richest country on Earth, you got to elderly people have no teeth in their mouth because Medicare does not cover dental, we don`t cover hearing aids, we don`t cover eyeglasses. We have got to do that. We have got to have universal pre-K. We have got to have a major housing bill because you got to half a million people sleeping out on their streets, and 18 million households spending 50 percent of their limited incomes on housing.
We got to make higher education affordable. Those are the issues that are important to the American people. And that is why we need a major reconciliation bill to start addressing the crises facing ordinary Americans.
HAYES: So just -- I know you don`t want to talk process and I understand that. I don`t really love too anyway. But I just want to be clear on this. Like, those things are in -- you view as part of the reconciliation package that you would like --
SANDERS: That is the reconciliation package. What do you think it is?
HAYES: Right.
SANDERS: It is that, and it is lowering the cost of prescription drugs. It is progressive tax reform that says that maybe, just maybe Jeff Bezos and other billionaires should stop paying their fair share of taxes. That is what we are talking about. And this is what the American people want. This is what we`ve got to do.
HAYES: Are you at all -- I mean, I don`t think -- I think between the what`s happened in the wake of the great financial crisis, I think, with interest rates, like I am the number one person who says deficits are not to be worried about. I know that this would be paid for largely with tax increases. I guess, is there some part of you that worries about a level of spending that is too much for the economy to basically deal with, in one fell swoop?
SANDERS: Well, this is what I think. And I got to be honest with you and tell you, you know, we`re still working on this. But as of now, we are assuming that we`re going to pay for all of the new programs, paid family and medical leave, childcare, housing, all of the ongoing programs by demanding that the wealthiest people in the largest corporations start paying their fair share of taxes.
But let me tell you, Chris, what I think most economists would agree with, and that is at a time when we have record-breaking low interest rates. Now is precisely the time to borrow and invest in one-time infrastructure projects. So that is kind of the premise that we`re operating under.
HAYES: Sen. Bernie Sanders, Chair of the Budget Committee in the Senate, thanks for making time tonight.
SANDERS: Thanks for having me.
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