CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview with Shelley Moore Capito

Interview

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SEN. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO (R-WV): Well, I think we have to look at the comparison of the two plans.

We really narrowed the focus on infrastructure to really look at physical infrastructure, roads, bridges, rail, airports, water systems. The president's bill, the $2.2 trillion, goes far afield from that. So, where I think the first starting point we need to have is, let's

do an apples-to-apples comparison of the physical infrastructure, core infrastructure of his plan with how it matches up with what we have put forward.

The president asked for our plan, and we thought it was really important to put a marker in to show what we thought was important, what's going to be the job-creating infrastructure plan, and how much it would be.

So, I think we're at a really -- and all indications are, it's time to really start putting the pencils to the paper.

BASH: So, just to follow up on that, if the apples-to-apples match and you come to an agreement, you are open to a midway point just on the money?

CAPITO: Well, we're open to looking at these -- all these different areas, as long as it's paid for, as long -- we have always done this bipartisan, this physical infrastructure piece. And there's no reason we shouldn't be able to get to an agreed amount at this point.

I don't know where that is right now, but at least we're talking and we're starting to talk, and we have gotten some good signals back that this is the direction the White House and others want to go.

BASH: You have said that infrastructure should be fully paid for. But you also say increasing the corporate tax rate is a non-negotiable red line.

So, would any tax hike be acceptable to you?

CAPITO: Where I think it's important for folks to know how we have paid for the ideas we have on the table, we have got, of course, the gas tax, which is the trust fund, which is a declining resource.

We also have user fees. We have folks using our roads and bridges and other infrastructure that aren't really paying in for the maintenance and use of those highways. That would be electric vehicles or hydrogen or some hybrid. So we build that into formula.

I think too an idea that we need to look at is to look at the COVID dollars that have already been appropriated and move that towards infrastructure, let our cities and towns use that money for roads and bridges for their match.

So, I think we have got some really good ideas that doesn't -- that don't incorporate raising any taxes, but simply looks at the users and the consumers of infrastructure and says, let's pay with this with dollars that we generate from those entities.

BASH: Have you heard from the White House since you released your plan?

CAPITO: Sure.

[09:45:00]

Yes, I have. Yes, I have, very encouraging signs. I saw what Jen Psaki on her -- in her comments. And I have talked with others. And we are circling back on Monday to figure out the best strategies forward. I have talked to our ranking members. I have talked to my committee chairmen. I have talked to Democrats. This is an active conversation, and I think that it's a good beginning.

BASH: You have said that you expect climate change to be part of these infrastructure negotiations.

You're a Republican who believes the climate crisis is real, and you say that you want to be part of the solution. President Biden is proposing $174 billion for electric cars in his plan. Are you open to that?

CAPITO: Well, the last highway bill that we passed, which is one of the anchors of this plan, does have infrastructure in there for electric charging stations and innovations around electric vehicles.

Where I differ from the president is, I don't think we need $160 billion to incent people to buy electric vehicles. I don't think that we should be building the charging stations throughout this country, when private -- private entities are going to be the beneficiaries of having charging stations at their different stopping points along the highways.

And I think they should play a part here. So I think that's where we really start to really separate on E.V.s. I'm all about moving forward with the technology and creating an electric vehicle economy. That's fine.

But let's let the private sector participate in that. That's where I think has the best -- the best possibilities of really making the most out of our, not just private dollars, but public dollars as well.

BASH: I want to turn to the issue of police reform.

CAPITO: Yes.

BASH: Your fellow Republican Senator Tim Scott proposed a compromise on so-called qualified immunity that would allow individuals to sue police departments, but not individual police officers.

Do you support that?

CAPITO: Well, I definitely support Senator Scott's efforts.

I was on the Justice Act that got caught up in politics in the fall. I think he has redoubled his efforts and is working across the aisle. I think the time is now. I think there's a real, a real -- and it's probably past due, but a real want to get this done, and I think to get it done right.

But we have got to make sure that we are still recruiting in and have the possibilities of having what is a core, I think, function of our government, which is a law enforcement that protects us.

Qualified immunity is definitely a hot button issue. I think the way that Senator Scott has formulated some revisions to qualified immunity is on the table right now. I know he's in active negotiations on this piece. And I know that's a big piece of this.

BASH: And do you like what you have heard about it?

CAPITO: Yes, I like what Senator Scott has put forward.

I think other things that we had in the Justice Act would -- eliminates choke holds, and it makes a registry so that you're not passing bad cop to bad cop. There's a lot of really good things in there that I think are going to be the core of any kind of justice bill that we pass.

I know there's different ideas. There's the George Floyd Act and others. So we will be looking at that to try to find ways to move forward.

BASH: I want to ask about vaccine hesitancy, Senator.

Polls show almost half of Republicans don't want to get a vaccine. I want you to listen to your fellow Republican Senator Ron Johnson and what he said about getting vaccinated.

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SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): If you have a vaccine, quite honestly, what do you care if your neighbor has one or not?

What is it to you? You have got a vaccine, and science is telling you it's very, very effective. So, why is this big push to make sure everybody gets a vaccine?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BASH: He went on to say he's -- quote -- "highly suspicious" of what's happening here.

Do comments like that hurt your push for Americans to get vaccinated, especially hesitant Republicans?

CAPITO: Well, I definitely think that comments like that hurt.

I believe that we should all have confidence, that we should -- to not just protect ourselves, but our communities and our neighbors. We should get vaccinated. And I wouldn't say that only Republicans have hesitancy.

I think that there are some folks that are unsure. And when we saw what happened over the last week with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, that really sort of chills people that were maybe waiting.

So, no, I disagree with my fellow senator. I think we ought to move forward. West Virginia has done a great job in this area, but we're starting to find that we have more vaccine than we do have people who are willing to step forward.

So, I'm trying to do whatever I can to say, it's safe, it's reliable, and it's really about you and your neighbor. And that's what we need to take into consideration.

BASH: Speaking of fellow Republicans, another one, Liz Cheney, was under fire, you remember, for voting to impeach President Trump.

[09:50:02]

There is a "New York Times" report that some of her male GOP colleagues made what some women in the room considered sexist attacks. One compared it to when you -- quote -- "look up into the stands and see your girlfriend on the opposition's side."

As a Republican woman yourself, when you heard about that, what did you think?

CAPITO: Well I can tell you what, that Liz Cheney is one strong woman.

And I think she has a terrific insight and great, strong backbone. So I don't think any -- anything -- any comment like that could even touch her in terms of offending her.

I mean, people have to just stop with the casual comments that are hurting, that they don't realize the ramifications of it. I don't know. I mean, I feel like, as a woman leader, I'm going to be just as strong as a man. And whatever the side comments are, I just don't pay attention to them. We have just got to keep moving forward here.

BASH: Last question.

CAPITO: Yes.

BASH: You called President Trump's actions during the January 6 insurrection disgraceful. And you said history will judge him harshly.

Would you support the former president if he runs again in 2024?

CAPITO: Well, I think that is a really premature question.

And I think January 6 still is very vivid in many of us who were at the Capitol that day, in our minds, as a very sad day for our country.

The Republican Party is strong. We have got a lot of folks who are not just looking to lead into 2022, but into 2024. So, we will see. I hope that President Trump plays a role. I don't know whether he will run or not, but we can sort that out as time goes on.

Thank you.

BASH: OK.

Senator Shelley Moore Capito, Republican of West Virginia, appreciate it. CAPITO: All right, thank you.

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