CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Michael McCaul
Interview
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REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): I think it's very important. I think that's a good strategy. You want our NATO allies and partners on the same page, when it comes to things like these cybersecurity attacks, when it comes to Nord Stream II pipeline that unfortunately the president had a waiver, that it was in the national interest of the United States, to allow to Putin to complete that pipeline into Europe, making Europe for energy-dependent on Russia.
But I do think -- I agree with him, he goes to the table with more strength if he has our allies behind him.
TAPPER: Some Republicans have criticized Biden for even having this meeting with Putin. Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska wrote, quote, we're rewarding Putin with a summit? This is weak.
Obviously, U.S. intelligence says that the Russian government itself was behind last year's SolarWinds hack and, of course, the bad actors in Russia have been fingered as having been behind other ransomware attacks this year. Do you think this summit is a mistake?
MCCAUL: Well, I think he is rewarding Putin by having this summit, you know, in Russia with Mr. Putin. And I would not criticize the meeting as much as the concessions that were made prior to this meeting. You know, the national waiver interest with Nord Stream II. The idea of all these cyberattacks that have taken place. I think that should be a big part of this conversation, is to how -- you know, to get them to stop this major cyberattacks on our critical infrastructure.
Also, Navalny, that was mentioned by your reporter. He has allowed -- basically called his entire organization extremists. So they have -- will have no opportunity to challenge Putin's party in the Duma and, therefore, pretty much nullifying the elections.
And Navalny, remember, was poisoned by a chemical weapon that violates our chemical weapons sanctions. And yet, the president has yet to put those sanctions in place, nor the congressionally mandated sanctions to stop Nord Stream II.
TAPPER: Yeah, the meeting that Putin and Biden are having I think is Geneva, Switzerland.
But let me ask you, I want to get to everything you just mentioned there. In addition to the two Americans that are in Russian prisons that you've been talking about, and I've been covering, Paul Whelan and Trevor Reed, but what do you think Biden should do to stop these cyberattacks by the Russian government and bad actors in Russia? What kind of retribution would you support? MCCAUL: I think he needs to make it clear that's unacceptable, whether
it be Russian-sponsored, state-sponsored attacks, to Russian mafia, which I think Putin has tacit approval of, that we're not going to let these go without consequences in the future, whether it'd be sanctions or whether it'd be, once we do the attribution, to hit them back.
We had the Colonial Pipeline CEO testify, and I asked him about -- you know, they can't hack back. What do you think the federal government should be doing when a nation state attacks our interest in critical infrastructure like a pipeline? And would you support the ability to really respond and hit them back hard?
I think only until we have consequences to bad behavior will the bad behavior stop.
TAPPER: Right. And as you've noted, the bad behavior has been going on and Biden lifted the sanctions, having to do with Nord Stream, the gas pipeline. Obviously, basically outlawing Navalny's party was off -- not to mention poisoning him and imprisoning him as well, was provocative.
But at the same time, there is this imperative to relations, because the U.S. and Russia do need to have some relationship. The relationship right now between the U.S. and Russia is so bad both countries recalled their ambassadors earlier this year. Biden hopes, sources tell CNN, that they're going to be able to reach a point where they send back their ambassadors to Washington and Moscow.
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I mean, would you applaud that step? I get that there's -- it's a tough line to walk here.
MCCAUL: Well, I met with the Ambassador John Solomon just last week, and I think the reason why they're not pushing forward with these sanctions that I quite frankly think gives the president a position of strength rather than weakness going into this summit. But they have chosen not to do this because they think it's going to rattle Putin's cage and be counterproductive to their meeting.
My only hope is that they come out with agreements on cybersecurity attacks, the invasion of Ukraine, in Crimea for instance, the release of Trevor Reed, as you talk about, and Paul Whelan, American marine soldiers, one from state of Texas who have been held hostage, and Trevor Reed has COVID right now.
I hope there are some positive outcomes that come out of this. But I'll be honest with you, Jake. You're dealing with a former KGB officer. Once KGB, always. And I'm not entirely optimistic that we're going to see any major results coming out of this.
TAPPER: Yeah, we'll have you back to talk about what he gets out of it if anything.
Republican Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas, thank you so much. Appreciate you as always. MCCAUL: Thanks, Jake.
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