CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Madeleine Dean
Interview
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REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): Well, first of all, thank you for having me. And today's a good day for democracy. You're absolutely right, it was April of 2019, that our committee subpoenaed Mr. McGahn to come before us, he did not come before us, based on an administration that claims some sort of blanket immunity. So, this is a good day for a coequal branch of government to exercise our constitutional oversight.
You probably know the terms of the arrangement for today's testimony, closed door, and it will be published. But they first have to transcribe it, run it past his team to make sure there are no faults in it. And then, it will be published.
I have found Mr. McGahn to really bring to life Volume 2 of the Muller report. You know, he plays prominently in that and his testimony before the special counsel talks about the president in a tumultuous time in the White House in a panic, clearly, over the Muller investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election. But also, of course, Volume 2, the attempts to obstruct justice by a president of the United States.
Lots of pressure on Mr. McGahn when he served as counsel to the president to direct Rod Rosenstein to let Muller go, so that they could end this investigation. Of course, Mr. McGahn did not do that. But he brought to life his testimony that everybody can read in Volume 2 of the Muller report.
[17:30:00]
TAPPER: So, I know you can't say what he said that was part of the agreement, what you just explained, it gets transcribed, it goes to his lawyers and then it will be released. Can you tell us, did you learn anything new? Is there anything that we don't know if we have read Volume II of the Mueller report?
DEAN: I believe we did learn some new things. I have to tell you, our counsel in judiciary is just superb. So, she's been doing an excellent job. It is not over yet. I can report to you. The testimony is not yet complete. I'll be going back to see whatever else is left. But, yes, there is new information in there.
TAPPER: Congressman Nadler, Chairman Nadler says McGahn's testimony, quote, vindicates the congressional subpoena. McGahn fought that subpoena for years, as we just discussed, he only agreed to testify once he reached a deal with the Biden Justice Department. Now that you've heard from him, was it worth all this effort?
DEAN: Absolutely. To get to the truth of what the former president was doing, in terms of trying to block the investigations by a special counsel, it's very important that we get historically the truth of what happened. The other thing that it raises is I have a bill, a subpoena compliance bill that actually was introduced in 2017 by Representative -- Republican Representative Darrell Issa, that would expedite subpoenas so that we wouldn't go through this again with a president who is hell bent on obstructing. So, I hope that this will show the urgency of the reforms that are needed, because certainly there could come a day when we would come up against a similar set of circumstances where an administration would not want to cooperate with a co-equal branch of government.
TAPPER: So Trump is obviously out of office. He lost decisively in November. He was impeached twice by Congress, not convicted by the Senate either time. What do you say to people who say, is this really the best use of the time and resources of the House of Representatives?
DEAN: Well, we have to walk and chew gum at the same time. Absolutely, it's important resources to be used, to get at the truth. We have a constitutional authority, and I would say obligation to perform oversight on administrations when they appear to be going rogue. And you saw that Mr. Mueller investigated very thoroughly both Russian interference in our election, and as I said, Volume II, possible obstruction by the former president, obstruction of justice. It's absolutely an important use of our time to protect democracy.
And after all, look where we are now, Jake, we have just gotten through January the 6th, and we have Republican leaders in both the House and the Senate who do not want to get at the truth. I'm not sure what they are afraid of. I now ask, what are they covering up.
TAPPER: Yes. well, I mean, I think we know what they're afraid of. They're afraid of the truth. You were on a call with Speaker Pelosi this week where she outlined four different options to re-up a January 6th investigation in the House. Which of the four options is most attractive to you?
DEAN: Well, always troubling to me is that somebody is immediately reporting what happens in caucus. I don't speak outside of caucus, but certainly what I have been really arguing for and that's not a mystery, and of course, the Speaker's arguing for it too, is that I hope Representative Schumer, Leader Schumer, will be able to bring up the independent commission again and have the votes to pass it. It is beyond shameful, frankly, that Mitch McConnell made phone calls asking for personal favors from representatives to vote no.
This is the day after Mrs. Sicknick and the partner of Capitol Police Officer Sicknick went around door-to-door --
TAPPER: Yes. DEAN: -- draped in their grief and asked them to please just find out the facts of what happened. They weren't trying to condemn anybody. They said, simply find out the facts of what happened. What took my son's life and what threatens so many others. It is shameful. And then of course, you saw those same members go home. I wonder if they recognize the hypocrisy of going home from Memorial Day weekend and lifting up more dead, those who fought and gave the ultimate measure to protect us, to protect our democracy.
TAPPER: Yes.
DEAN: I guess they can't smell the hypocrisy. We need an independent commission.
TAPPER: Yes,
DEAN: Failing that, we have other options as you well know.
TAPPER: Congresswoman Madeleine Dean of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, thanks so much. Good to see you again.
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