CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Pramila Jayapal

Interview

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REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Well, we condemn Hamas' firing of those rockets, but I think you have to look at what prompted even that behavior. I think that there was, you know, the continuing annexation that Israel has been undertaking for years actually.

And, you know, Jake, I was at Khan al-Ahmar several years ago when the bulldozers arrived to bulldoze that village. It was stopped by an injunction from the supreme court.

But this has been a pattern of action from Israel that frankly has taken away the idea even of a two-state solution that has led to increased hopelessness from the Palestinian people.

[16:30:04]

And I think what Hamas has done is -- obviously, we condemn that, but we have to look at the power balance here, or imbalance, as it were. And we have to put more responsibility on Israel in maintaining peace in the region.

And so I think a lot of this, when you look at the bombing of the AP building, when you look at the indiscriminate bombing that has been happening, the disproportionate loss of lives of Palestinians, you just have to be in a situation where you cannot -- we have to do everything we can, as the United States, to work towards a cease-fire, not just call for a cease-fire, utilize the U.N., obviously, a united front there, and use all the tools that we have, as the United States, in pressuring Israel to -- and Hamas to work towards a cease-fire.

TAPPER: I think one of the situations the White House finds itself in is trying to figure out the best way to get Netanyahu to do what you're talking about, a cease-fire.

Clearly, Netanyahu right now is not listening to Biden's public call for de-escalation. But people in the White House, according to my sources, also think that floor speeches or U.N. Security Council resolutions won't get Netanyahu to do what they want him to do in terms of de-escalating.

It will only enable him to pursue his domestic politics the best way that he can in the situation he's in. What do you think the Biden administration should be doing?

JAYAPAL: Well, I do -- I don't agree with that assessment.

I mean, I don't think that there's been a situation in the world where you have had intense violence where it hasn't been helpful to have a full diplomatic full-court press from the United States and the U.N.

So, to have the U.N. come out with a cease-fire resolution is very important. I don't think it's appropriate that the United States blocked that. And, in fact, I think that might have emboldened Netanyahu even more.

So we have to use that tool. I think that President Biden has been giving a very mixed message. As you say, it's transitioned. And I'm happy that has happened. But we're a little bit too late to the picture with that.

And I think Benjamin Netanyahu thinks that Joe Biden is going to stand by him. And I think we have to quickly reverse that idea. I think sending out these -- this arms sale in the middle of it, approving the arms sale in the middle of it sends an extraordinarily bad message.

TAPPER: Well, let's talk about that.

JAYAPAL: So, we have another -- we have a number of tools that we can use.

TAPPER: Let's talk about that, because your colleagues and fellow progressives, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Congressman Mark Pocan, they have all introduced legislation to block the sale of $785 billion in weapons to Israel that was happening before this conflict started.

Would you support their legislation to block it?

JAYAPAL: Yes, I'm on that resolution. It's a resolution of disapproval. And I will be on that resolution.

And I will tell you, Jake, this isn't just about Israel. I really believe that the United States Congress has to be involved in approving these arm sales, regardless of where they are. We have for too long -- there's a staff person that somehow notifies the staff person on the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee, and that's supposed to be sufficient.

That's not sufficient. And I believe even the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee feels this way.

We need to be involved in these issues. Congress needs to have a say. And, in this case, it's Israel. I can tell you, I think that should be the case regardless of where it is. So, yes, I'm going to be on that resolution to disapprove this arms sale.

I do not think that this is the moment for it. But, beyond that, I think Congress needs to reassert itself in these matters.

TAPPER: Before you go, I want to ask you, because you're leading this effort of more than 50 House Democrats urging both Democratic Majority Leader Schumer and Speaker Pelosi to go against Republicans and push the Biden White House for a larger up-front investment on infrastructure, and not focus as much on trying to make it bipartisan.

Why?

JAYAPAL: It's not about going against Republicans. It's about doing what the people are calling for, Republican, independent and Democrat.

If Republicans are going to refuse to come along with actually helping us to get to a package that meets the scale of the crisis, meets the needs of this country for this once-in-a-generation investment, then we have to go -- we have to go it alone. But we have given them a chance. Nothing has emerged from that. And

don't forget, Jake, they voted no and took the dough, right? They voted no on the rescue package, and then went home and bragged about how it was important that that money was coming into their communities.

In spite of the fact that people in their districts wanted them to vote for that package, they essentially said, no, we're not going to do that.

So, yes, I don't have a lot of faith that they're going to come along. And I think this is too urgent, and we need to go big, go bold and go fast.

TAPPER: Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington state, thanks so much for joining us. Good to see you again.

JAYAPAL: Thank you, Jake. Good to see you.

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