ABC "This Week" - Transcript: Interview with Michael McCaul

Interview

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REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Thanks, Martha.

RADDATZ: I was really struck by that contrast coming out of the G7. You just heard Tony Blinken talking about the contrast between President Biden, former President Trump's visits with European leaders. The images alone are pretty striking, and so was the substance. We've seen new agreements on everything from vaccine-sharing to global minimum tax rates.

Boris Johnson called talks with Biden a breath of fresh air.

Does this change concern you or do you welcome it?

MCCAUL: You know, look, I think it's important we work with our NATO allies. We work with the G7.

I think in the past and I think Trump -- you know, the frustration was there's a lot of talk and no action. And so, that's why he espoused America first. We want to espouse our ideals over our European partners.

Now, I think it's better that we work together. I do think it's smart to meet with our NATO allies and G7 prior to the Putin summit which is going to be the most powerful and most dangerous meeting on this trip.

RADDATZ: And some in your party say that President Biden shouldn't meet with Vladimir Putin because of these enormous cyberattacks and what's happening in Russia. You've said it looks like a reward.

MCCAUL: Well, I think --

RADDATZ: Tony Blinken said, you know, this is something we want to do.

MCCAUL: I think the price for admission, to a ticket for this seat, was way too high. I mean, he -- for instance, Nord Stream II pipeline.

The president waved in the natural interest Nord Stream II which will be Putin's pipeline going into Europe so that Europe -- European -- you know, our partners will be dependent on Russian energy.

I don't think that's in the United States' national interest. And, quite frankly, it's not in Europe's best interest either. And this really empowered Putin when this happened. And I think we're giving him a lot of stuff.

RADDATZ: I want to just stop you there for a second. The Germans, one of our key allies, support the project and say that not seeing it through would have larger ramifications with Russia than canceling it.

MCCAUL: Right. And, Germany is the only sympathetic country in Europe that wants this. Their former chancellor is a lobbyist for the Russian, you know, Federation which calls into question a lot of this.

I think it's -- I think it's a bad move. I don't think it's in our national interest to do so. And I think we're not -- you know, you want to go into these talks at positions of strength, not of weakness. And I think he's going in a little bit out of weakness because he's made all these concessions including Navalny, which Congress mandatorily called for those sanctions on Nord Stream, but also on Navalny. And President Biden has not enforced those secondary sanctions on the -- the chemical poisoning of the opposition leader of Putin.

RADDATZ: And -- and what really should he do? I -- I -- I put this to Tony Blinken as well. Sanctions have not changed Vladimir Putin's behavior much.

MCCAUL: Well, the threat of sanctions on Nord Stream did shut it down. That's a good point to make. I agree with you. And when it comes to cyber-attacks. I mean here -- here we go. We -- we let him go forward with the pipeline, Martha, and then the Russians hacked Colonial Pipeline, or an organized criminal element, which I think it's all interconnected, personally. I think Putin has tacit approval on this. But we had SolarWinds, which was state -- it was state sanctioned. And now we have what's -- what's happened with Colonial Pipeline, yet no repercussions. The irony is the two pipeline here, right? We allow Putin's pipeline, shut down Keystone, and then the Russians hack Colonial Pipeline. To me that's -- there's something disturbing about that.

RADDATZ: Who -- who wins in a cyber war with Russia?

MCCAUL: Well, I think -- I think we need to let -- demonstrate and the president needs to demonstrate with Putin, there will be consequences to your actions if you continue to do this.

They have been mounting this up in the last just month. And, extraordinarily. And I think sanctions are great, but I think it's time to start thinking about hitting back.

When we do attribution, we need to have rules of the road. I have -- I passed the Cyber Diplomacy Bill out of my committee. We need -- they need to know that -- that when they do this, there are consequences to their actions and we're going to hit them back. Until we do that, they're going to continue with bad behavior.

RADDATZ: And -- and I want to turn to the DOJ and ask you about that. "The New York Times" report that in its hunt for leaks, the Trump Justice Department seized data from Apple for at least two Democratic members of the House Intelligence Committee, committee staffers, family members and even a minor.

You used to work at the Justice Department. Are you troubled by that report?

MCCAUL: Yes, I worked for the DOJ for a long time. I think, look, any time you -- and in the public integrity section, right? So any time you open a case against a -- or a subpoena against a member of Congress or a journalist, there's a very high predication to that. And I think it -- with -- in the journalists' case, you're looking at First Amendment protections. With a member of Congress, obviously, you've better have your facts together before you do something like this.

I don't have all the facts here, but what I will tell you is, the inspector general is -- DOJ is now investigating this. And I think that's where it properly belongs. That's where the investigation should take place. And let's see how that investigation turns out.

RADDATZ: And would you encourage Bill Barr and Jeff Sessions to testify under oath?

MCCAUL: You know, I think we should have the benefit of the doubt of the decision-making that took place. You know, whether -- whether it has to be under oath or, you know, in what context that is, I think we need to know why this decision was made and I think the IG, that's within the proper purview of the IG.

RADDATZ: OK. Thanks so much for joining us this morning. More to come (ph).

MCCAUL: Thank you, Martha.

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