CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Roger Marshall

Interview

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BROWN: Well, we just heard from Republicans hesitant to get the coronavirus vaccine in our last segment with Donie O'Sullivan. And joining me now is one Republican lawmaker who is also a physician that is working to get more Americans vaccinated. Sen. Roger Marshall joins me now. Good evening, Senator.

SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): Pamela, good evening. I'm excited to talk about this topic.

BROWN: It's an important one. You and several Republicans have actually released an ad campaign that helps to change people's minds. Let's play some of that now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GREG MURPHY (R-NC): It's obvious to me from a medical standpoint, the only way to protect ourselves and your loved ones ...

REP. LARRY BUCSHON (R-IN): And to end the government's restrictions on our freedoms is to take action and get the vaccine.

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): I look forward to the freedom that I along with my loved ones will regain once the vast majority of Americans are vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So you actually came up with this idea, my understanding is. As you well know, almost half of Republicans say they will not get the vaccine. How do you think this PSA could change their minds?

MARSHALL: Well, Pamela, we've done focus groups. I talked to, I bet, hundreds of people that fall into this category. And the regardless, before we break down the whys and the how comes, the number one thing we know that would move the needle is if their physician or their pharmacist would chat with them.

And I would just encourage listeners tonight that are hesitant to get their vaccine, that they would reach out to their doctor, their doctors' nurses, their pharmacist and have this same conversation with them as well. But there certainly is a group of people out there that are kind of a libertarian streak down and then unfortunately there are typically Republicans as well.

And regardless of that, I just would encourage them to fall back here and just take consider taking the vaccine so we can throw away the mask and live as free as we did before.

BROWN: I'm curious, have there been - because you had several Republican colleagues, obviously, in this video - have there been other Republican colleagues, though, that you wanted to be part of the PSA you asked them to be and they declined? I noticed your colleagues in the Senate Rand Paul and Bill Cassidy, they are both doctors, they were not in this.

MARSHALL: I think it's coincidental, probably. We send out an email to their staffs and then in a given day, whether the doctors and the senators weren't able to do it that day. It's a busy schedule, so I think that's probably just coincidental.

BROWN: OK. I want to ask about something else regarding PSA since we're on that topic. Former presidents Carter, Clinton, Bush and Obama, they all fell in this public service announcement urging Americans to get vaccinated. Former President Trump did not participate. He also got vaccinated off camera. What message does that send in your view?

MARSHALL: I don't think that this is all about President Trump at this point in time. He and his team did an incredible job getting the vaccine across the finish line, starting distributing it. I really think that this is now just a personal choice and that there's a group of people out there that just feel like they've been talked down to, deceived. They're just, frankly, worried and concerned.

[18:40:06]

They've been told they need a mask. They don't need a mask. They've been told that even if you've had the vaccine, you have to keep wearing the mask. So they need some type of reward. It's a little complicated. I don't think that that's the right rabbit hole to go down now.

BROWN: So I want to ask you though, because you say it's a personal choice. But also, of course, as you well know, part of the issue with vaccine hesitancy is misinformation. Some of that misinformation has been spread in the Republican Party, your Republican colleague in the Senate, Ron Johnson of Wisconsin has downplayed the urgency of vaccinating all Americans. Here's what he said last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): The science tells us that vaccines are 95 percent effective. So if you have a vaccine, quite honestly, what do you care if your neighbor has one or not? I mean, what is it you. You got a vaccine, and science is telling you it's very, very effective. So why is this big push to make sure everybody gets a vaccine?

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: So I'm curious what you say to that, especially that last part

where he said why is there this big push to get everyone vaccinated, what do you say to your colleagues in the Senate?

MARSHALL: Well, certainly this isn't about Ron Johnson and Roger Marshall, this is about the American public. It's about getting vaccines into people's arms. And certainly, there's a hundred senators with a hundred a hundred opinions.

But I think that regardless, if we can get people vaccinated, we can get to herd immunity. We're about this close right now. So I don't want to argue with other people, I just want to keep encouraging folks to get the vaccine. Lots of reasons to take it.

Our children probably aren't going to be able to have a vaccine until this fall or next year. I think it's really important, we keep our kids in school and we need to get the adults vaccinated to protect the kids.

BROWN: And I understand you don't want to do a tit for tat, but it's more of just the messaging and the sources of information. As you as you point out with this PSA, people want trusted sources of information. And as a doctor, as a Republican, that would fit in that category for Republicans, but I've also got to ask on the other end of that spectrum, there's Tucker Carlson on his show on Fox News that alleged that the vaccines might not work.

Here's what he said on April 13th. He said if the vaccine is effective, then there is no reason for people who have received the vaccine to wear masks or avoid physical contact. So maybe it doesn't work and they're simply not telling you that.

As you know, Carlson has a huge audience of mostly Republicans, in your view, what role do Carlson and others like him making these statements play and spreading vaccine hesitancy? Do you think at least some Republicans are skeptical of the vaccine because Fox News and other right-wing media outlets have spread misinformation about vaccine safety?

MARSHALL: I think all of this adds to the confusion of the average Joe public setting out there listening to all this noise out there. There's so much noise and to be frank, the CDC has not been real consistent on some of their suggestions - in their guardrails as well.

So there's no doubt this group of people you're talking about are very confused and that's why I'm just doing my final push here is to talk to your doctor. Don't listen to Tucker Carlson and don't listen to the CDC. Go talk to your own doctor, talk to your own pharmacist, talk to them about the risks and the benefits, the pros and the cons. And if you want to live as free as you did once before, we need to go get the vaccine.

BROWN: But how concerned is it for you that people are already going back to that living as free as they did before without getting vaccinated? They've kind of just been like I'm over this. MARSHALL: Well, and again, it's America, everybody has an individual

right. I think that one of the things we have to be careful about is not shaming people and not talking down to them and objecting to their way of life. Look in Kansas, we just normally physically distance from each other. We typically live six, 10 foot apart normally anyway.

So look, we're really close to herd immunity and I think we have to figure out a way to get to that finish line. I think we're really close, the number of people that have had the virus, the number of people that are vaccinated are getting close. We saw when Israel got to 60 percent, when Great Britain got to 60 percent of their people vaccinated, the numbers plummeted. So let's get across the finish line.

BROWN: Yes. So we were speaking about a misinformation and a recent CNN poll found that 70 percent of Republicans continue to believe in the lie that this election, the last election was stolen. You voted to toss out millions of votes in Arizona and Pennsylvania. You also join on to the Texas lawsuit attempting to throw out votes cast in four states.

I'm curious. Looking back, do you have any regrets about your actions and any concern that they contributed to misinformation about the election?

MARSHALL: Look, Pamela, we're just so ready to move on. I made a decision based upon the facts that I knew at that point in time. I was concerned then and I still am today that six states broke their own laws or their own constitution, but it's time to move on. It's time for this country to heal. It's time for a spirit of forgiveness to be happening. It's time for this country to work together and focus on the goals that we can solve together.

[18:45:03]

We've got plenty of challenges right now we're making great progress coming out of this COVID virus. The economies bounce back, it's time to move on.

BROWN: A time to move on and I see your point there, but also it's also important to hold people, lawmakers accountable for their actions and this, obviously, was a decision that you had made.

And I'm just curious as we try to move on, but also look at the ripple effect from what happened there with the election, how does those actions, how did those actions square with your Republican values as limited government, states rights, federalism, how does that line up with wanting to throw out millions of votes, the advocating for millions of votes to be thrown out in several states?

MARSHALL: Pamela, we want voting to be easier, cheating to be harder. So I think that by us standing up to our concerns about those elections, about the election integrity is force those states with their problems to come back to the table and have those legislators work together to make sure we had safer elections with higher integrity, again, making it easier to vote, but harder to cheat. So in my heart, I did what I thought was the right thing and I think

the country is moving in a better direction.

BROWN: OK. And I'm just going to press one more time on that and then I know we do have to move on. But the Constitution gives the states rights to certify the results. These states, Arizona and Pennsylvania, did certify the results.

That is what the constitution allows. But you had voted to throw out those votes that they had certified. So again, I'm just curious how it aligns with your view as a Republican on states rights.

MARSHALL: Look, this is not just necessarily Republican issue, Democrats have done the same thing. I think there may be elections since 2000. Look, if I think that a state cheated that they broke their own laws, their own constitution, somebody has to stand up and push back on them.

BROWN: But there was no evidence of widespread fraud as you well know, from both sides of the aisle, people said that there was no evidence of it. So what were you basing that on?

MARSHALL: Based upon that they broke their own laws and their own constitution. So therefore, we don't know how much fraud or cheating there was or wasn't. All I ever asked for is just get all of the evidence into one room at the same time and have this discussion so that elections - so we could restore election integrity once again. And right now America doesn't have much faith in the election process or much faith in the integrity.

BROWN: But do you see why a big reason they wouldn't is because lawmakers, elected officials were coming out and then questioning it and sowing doubt when the courts were the ones - all these laws, as you well know, they have been litigated. They went through the court system and so forth.

So you may not have liked them. You may have said, well, the legislature didn't do that, it was the elected executives in the states that that made these rule changes. I don't like that. But it was all litigated. So does it concern you that so many Americans still don't have faith based on the actions and rhetoric from elected leaders?

MARSHALL: Pamela, we're kind of going in a circular argument and I'm not wanting to make this argument. I stand beside what I said that I thought that there was fraud from the standpoint that the states didn't follow their own constitution and their own laws. Somebody has to stand up and say that's not right and I felt like it was my job to do that.

BROWN: OK. And of course, as you well know, there were other states too that Trump won and those states weren't contested, which also raises the question of why that was done. But sorry, it is my job too as a journalist to look into these things, to ask, hold officials accountable and so I hope that you can respect where I'm coming from as well. But before we let you go, I've got one more question on a different

topic. Axios reported this morning that top Republicans are turning on Congresswoman liz cheney Liz Cheney. Congressman Jim Banks of Indiana said Cheney's continued criticisms are 'an unwelcome distraction and bakes even question whether Cheney would retain her role as the House Republican Conference chair in a month.

Your colleague, Sen. Mitt Romney, was booed by fellow Republicans while making remarks at the Utah Republican party convention earlier today. So I'm just curious and I don't know if we have that sound, but where does this internal - OK, let's play the sound real quick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I don't have the fact that I wasn't a fan of our last President's character issues and I'm also no fan - I'm too embarrassed. And I'm also no fan of the President's ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me.

ROMNEY: Yes, sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My friends, this is the moment I was talking about. Please. Thank you. Show respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So as you watch that, I'm curious what your view is, Sen. Marshall, where does this internal fighting end for the Republican Party?

[08:50:01]

MARSHALL: So I can't speak to what's going on, on the House side, but I can tell you on the Senate side, we've never been closer. If you go back to the two all-nighters we pulled on the vote-a-rama, the budget reconciliation, I saw our caucus grow closer and closer together.

Now that we're having lunch in person together, two or three times a week, our caucus is growing closer and closer as well. I'm excited where we are as Republican Party moving forward. We have some incredible people out there, Tim Scott delivered just an incredible message this past week, so I'm excited where we're going.

And just remember, reminding America, we had the greatest economy of our lifetime, pre-COVID, thanks to a smaller government, lower taxes and less regulations. And I'm afraid right now, we're being tossed in the other direction. And I see the moderates on both parties coming our direction, so I'm encouraged.

BROWN: But I'm just curious on that point, what do you think of the way Romney was treated there? What's your view of that? What do you think?

MARSHALL: I don't know much of the reference behind all of it. Each one of us have to or are accountable to our own voters and Sen. Romney will be responsible for his votes just like I'm responsible for my votes as well. But there are a lot of Americans out there that are just angry right now.

We've finished three town halls this morning, they're angry that they're being told they have to wear masks despite having the shots. They're angry that the President is threatening to take their land away from them. They're angry about packing the court, raising our taxes.

So there's a lot of anger out there with this far left agenda and I think Sen. Romney is probably feeling some of that anger out there and sometimes you just don't know who to be angry at.

BROWN: So you're saying that they're angry and they're taking it on him, because they're just angry across the board? I mean, he's a former standard bearer of the party, as you well know, and in many ways and he's getting booed. I mean, this is within the Republican Party. This isn't Democrats.

MARSHALL: Right. Certainly, the Republican Party has a big tent. We've come a long way since Sen. Romney was the presidential nominee. It is a different party today. It's much more progressive. I think that the working classes came over to the Republican Party, those people, hardworking Americans are now Republicans, at least they're voting Republican.

So I'm comfortable with where we are as a party. We've got work to do, but I think we're going in the right direction.

BROWN: Just really quickly, when you say progressive, what do you mean by that? More working-class voters? What do you mean?

MARSHALL: Yes. It's a good question, progressive. I think that the focus on just the day-to-day lives of people, the supper table issues of both of folks have focusing on their freedoms of speech, their freedoms of religion and just local control of their future and other government as well.

BROWN: OK.

MARSHALL: So I think just listening to the people, yes.

BROWN: OK. And I just have to quickly factor, because I'm a stickler for facts. On the election, you had said the Democrats had done it almost every election or nearly everyone. It hasn't been every election and the difference here, of course, is that you had the president in office who was saying the election was stolen. But thank you so much.

These are the kinds of conversations that need to be had, Sen. Roger Marshall.

MARSHALL: You bet.

BROWN: I really appreciate you coming on the show and I hope that we'll have you back so we can continue talking to people from all different sides of the aisle.

MARSHALL: You bet, Pamela. And we'll back check it too and put on what ...

BROWN: I bet you will.

MARSHALL: ... the truth what we're trying to communicate. Thank you.

BROWN: That would be great.

MARSHALL: God bless.

BROWN: I welcome that.

MARSHALL: OK.

BROWN: Thank you so much.

MARSHALL: Thank you. You bet.

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