MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Adam Schiff

Interview

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REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, they have referred the matter to the inspector general of the Justice Department to look into this broad sweep of records belonging to members of the press and media organizations, as well as records belonging to members of Congress and committee staff and family members.

But I really want the attorney general to go beyond that. The abuses during the department included very graphic interference by the president in specific cases in which he was implicated, for example, urging the Justice Department to lower the sentencing recommendation of someone, Roger Stone, and a close associate of his who lied to our committee during our investigation of the president.

And Bill Barr acted on that, reduced his sentence. The president later pardoned him. Similarly, the president intervened with Michael Flynn, another -- this time the former national security adviser the president, someone who pled guilty to repeatedly to federal crimes. And, in that case, Bill Barr and the Justice Department made that case go away.

So it goes well beyond anything impacting Congress or the press to very specific abuses, and essentially authorizing a criminal investigation of the people who were investigating him in the case of what Bill Barr did in authorizing John Durham to move forward with his probe.

MELBER: With the questions that you have posed to the Garland Justice Department about the nature of that surveillance, have you gotten all the answers that you need at this point?

SCHIFF: No, we really haven`t gotten any answers. We still aren`t sure, what was the predicate for seeking congressional records? Did they know whose records they were seeking? Were they seeking only Democrats` records or also Republicans?

We haven`t been able to get any answers to that. And I`m not sure that we will before the inspector general concludes their report.

But certain things need to take place now, and that is, I think, the need to put in much stronger safeguards to make sure that their leak investigations or any kind of investigations aren`t essentially broad fishing expeditions, don`t intrude on people`s First Amendment rights in the media, but also don`t violate separation of powers concerns when it comes to a co-equal branch of government.

MELBER: Barr and Sessions have issued various forms of denials of knowing about or being involved in this. Do you take them at their word?

SCHIFF: Well, look, you can`t take them at their word because they have demonstrated too often their word doesn`t mean very much.

In the case of Bill Barr, federal judges have repeatedly stated how he has been misleading with the court and with the country. And we know that, of course, he lied to the country about what was in the Mueller report.

So we can`t take them at their word. But I will tell you this. It`s either one kind of problem or another. They are either involved and knowing and deliberately trying to go after the president`s enemies and critics, or they were not knowing, in which case someone at the department was running these investigations, and apparently violating DOJ policy by not getting the required approvals.

I don`t tend to think that`s very likely, given what a priority the president and Bill Barr and Jeff Sessions put on leak investigations. The idea that they wouldn`t know that members of Congress were being swept up in this seems pretty farfetched.

MELBER: Yes.

And, finally, Congressman, you have been diligent and sort of following the rules and the process, the inspector general report, as you mentioned, plus a further review. You`re also telling us, though, that, at this point, Attorney General Garland has not provided you any of even the basic information.

And that`s quite striking, given both that you were apparently swept up in it, and also that you have an important role in oversight, where there is a legal process for that.

And so I guess my final question is, at what point, are we there yet or not, that you call on the new president, President Biden, who I know you agree with on many things, to, at a policy level, not individual cases, get more involved in changing the way the DOJ runs?

Or are we are -- are you not at that point yet?

SCHIFF: Well, we are at a very similar point.

I introduced legislation last year, which we will be reintroducing I hope within the next month, something called Protecting Our Democracy Act. It`s a comprehensive package of what I`m calling our own post-Watergate reforms to strengthen the independence of the Justice Department, to strengthen enforcement of the Emoluments Clause, so a president can`t enrich themselves in office, to strengthen the Hatch Act, so that a president can draft the federal work force to work on their campaign, to protect inspector generals, a whole host of other protections.

And I have to say, we`re getting some pushback from the administration that is treating -- acting as executives do and trying to protect executive prerogative. But after the abuses of the last four years, I would hope that President Biden and others within the administration and Justice Department would recognize there`s a higher priority here, and that is making sure that our system of checks and balances works.

And if that means making sure the Congress can do its oversight, that`s what needs to happen. And so I hope we will get movement from them. But I`m determined to push forward regardless.

MELBER: Very interesting to get your views and your candor on all of that, including what you call the pushback from the Biden White House.

Congressman Adam Schiff, as always, thank you, sir.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

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