MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Hakeem Jeffries

Interview

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REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Great to be on with you, Ari.

MELBER: Your party now has been debating what to do about Mitch McConnell. And, as I have reported, Mitch McConnell`s trying to slightly un-McConnell what he said, although the record is clear.

Your response?

JEFFRIES: Well, Mitch McConnell has a way of putting himself on full blast. And, once again, he`s done that. He`s done this in the past.

He did it when he made clear that his top political objective was to make sure that Barack Obama was a one-term president. This is the same person who labeled himself as the Grim Reaper a few years ago, and made it clear to his donors that his sole job was to stop things from happening.

And now, of course, he`s doubled and tripled down on that message. There is a clear distinction between Democrats and Republicans right now, a moment of clarity for everyone. Democrats are the party of getting things done. Republicans are the party of obstruction.

Democrats believe in democracy. Republicans believe in autocracy. Democrats believe in building back better, the American Rescue Plan, the American Jobs Plan, the American Families Plan, and Republicans are all about grievance and xenophobia.

MELBER: Yes, I hear what you`re saying there. And this is why it`s such a momentous clash.

Since we have you on the House side, I want to get into this other story. The congressman stays.

But here we are, six months into Biden`s presidency, Republicans squabbling about the past, as we have been discussing, the number one House Republican actively trying to oust the number three, Liz Cheney, because she`s fact- checked Trump`s election lies.

Now, this is the Republican Party`s Trump problem. It has been playing out at the highest levels of the party this week. And as I think the congressman knows, sometimes, we turn to bars and poetry for wisdom around here.

Republicans could certainly use some from the great writer Joan Didion, who recounted how it took her a long time to see that she`d stopped believing in new faces and came to understand -- quote -- "It is distinctly possible to stay too long at the fair."

Congressman, I quote the great Joan Didion for that idea, because you have got people at the MAGA fair six months, half-a-year into a new political era, and they`re not even being extreme in pursuit of some -- quote, unquote -- "party ideal" which may or may not be right.

They`re being extreme in the service of relitigating lies for an election loss signed, sealed, delivered.

JEFFRIES: Yes, Maya Angelou once said, if someone tells you who they are, believe them.

And this is who House Republicans are at this point. The House Republican Conference is a full-blown cult of personality as it relates to bending the knee to Donald Trump. We can`t sugarcoat it. We can`t moderate the language. This is who they are.

And that is why they`re ousting Liz Cheney. Liz Cheney has one of the most conservative voting records in the entire House of Representatives, more so than the person who it appears may replace her. The big difference is, she`s not willing to perpetrate the big lie that the election was stolen and Donald Trump somehow should be the president of the United States of America.

This is a very reckless moment. Ulysses Grant once said, there are but two parties now, patriots and traitors. This was back in 1861. Liz Cheney has chosen to be a patriot. And, apparently, being a patriot may be inconsistent with being a House Republican.

MELBER: As we say in the business, bars, Congressman.

Also, since I have you, as a member of the Judiciary Committee, I want to get your views on this unfolding Giuliani controversy. And you and I both understand everyone`s entitled to due process. The raid is a bad sign, but he hasn`t been accused of anything yet. But he`s also been at the center of the big election lie.

Here he was defending himself on "Hannity."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: Just about the day that I begin representing him is the day they go invade my iCloud.

So, try telling somebody that it wasn`t to get the material on Donald Trump. Totally done because they want to destroy my credibility.

There`s no way that I`m a Russian agent or anybody else`s agent. I was a lawyer who was representing a client who was innocent. The biggest burden a lawyer can have is to represent an innocent man. And I did it damn well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: Congressman, your response?

And does this process, however it plays out, does it matter for accountability? Plenty of people want to move on, focus on the business of the day. But there was so much that was done against the Justice Department and equality under the law. Does it matter to have potentially accountability for some of these acts in the Trump era?

JEFFRIES: Absolutely.

We were very clear throughout the last four years that no one is above the law. That includes the president of the United States. It certainly includes one of his top consiglieres, Rudolph Giuliani, who, by the way, we have got to ask the question, how did he go from being America`s so-called mayor, so-called America`s mayor, to a caricature of Skeletor, right, a cartoon character?

It is an incredible descent. And he wrapped into it so much apparent criminality that the Justice Department is compelled to investigate. And so our view is really just that the Justice Department should follow the facts, apply the law, as always, be guided by the Constitution, and let the chips fall where they may.

And if that means an indictment and a trial, then so be it.

MELBER: Understood.

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, thanks for being here tonight.

JEFFRIES: As always, thanks. Ari.

MELBER: Appreciate it.

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