MSNBC "All In With Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with James Clyburn
Interview
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REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, I feel very strongly that this begins the process. That`s all has happened here. And we are going to move forward doing what we have to do. The Vice President spoke eloquently to the fact that we are going to move forward with S.1. And we are going to move forward with the Voter Empowerment Act which is a part of S.1 and the John R. Lewis Voting Rights and Investment Act.
Now, you`re going to look at what Joe Manchin has put forward. And I think that Stacey Abrams has always already spoke favorably of it. And I too said that it is a great first step. So, let`s take a look at what he`s putting forward and not think that we ought to make a run at trying to get the votes that are necessary to get it. But if you don`t, then I think it`s time for us to take a hard look at the filibuster.
And let me be clear, I have never asked that the filibuster be eliminated. I do believe that we`re going to do for constitutional issues what we`ve done with the budget. Reconciliation is huge in order for us to maintain the full faith and credit of the United States of America. And we ought to use reconciliation to maintain democratic principles and move forward without our pursuit of a more perfect union.
So, I just feel very strongly that the filibuster can be maintained while at the same time not allow it to apply to constitutional issues just as we don`t let it apply to a bunch of this issue.
HAYES: It`s a -- it`s really worth, I think, emphasizing this point for a moment, because there is at this point no conceptual coherence to the filibuster. There are two major exceptions, reconciliation, which again, is a sort of obscure budgetary process -- budgetary process but -- and then nominations, right, because we got rid of that up to an including Supreme Court justices and judges who have lifetime tenure.
There`s no reason -- that was not handed down by Moses in the tablets or conjured up by the Founding Fathers or delivered -- that`s complete happenstance. Those are the two catapults.
CLYBURN: That`s exactly right.
HAYES: Yes.
CLYBURN: In fact, when you started this issue, when you find out that there was an oversight, someone made a mistake, and it`s been used and turned into a tradition. And so, tradition means of itself that sometimes you got to have better laws or get beyond tradition. And look, its clear in Article One, Section 4 of the Constitution of the United States of America that the federal government maintains control, must maintain control.
If you look at the Federalist Papers, it`s right there. Hamilton spoke to it eloquently. On three pages there he says that federal elections must remain with the federal government. What you see here is Republicans tried to turn over Congressional elections to states. That is exactly what is happening. And for Mitch McConnell to say this is a takeover on our part, it is just the opposite.
How many Democrats in Georgia voted for that deal that they passed down there, or in Texas, or in Florida, or in ours -- as you put just pointed out? Not a single democrat voted for any of these. So, to say that the law is no good unless you have bipartisan support, well, say to me that you don`t believe in the 15th amendment, because the 15th amendment that gave blacks the right to vote is passed by one party vote.
HAYES: It`s an excellent point, the 15th amendment, 14th as well, we should -- we should note. In fact, a big part of country is under military rule, but that it was -- it was a strange time in many ways. But the deeper question to me here, Congressman, is that is this idea of the sort of specter and to me kind of the code of federalizing elections when that is - - we`ve been fighting on that turf forever about who controls elections, and this is not a new argument.
CLYBURN: No, it`s not. And it has never been a real problem before. As you know, when I came along and voted, I could not vote until I was 21. We have now lower the voting age to 18. States didn`t do that. The federal government did that. It decided that we were sending young men at the age of 18 and 19, 20 years old off to war, and they ought to have the right to vote on whether or not that should occur. And that`s what the federal government, the Congress used to lower the voting age to 18. States came along later because they didn`t want to have two systems.
So, this argument is very clear. The history is there. The records are there. And I don`t know why Mitch McConnell would stand on the Senate floor and misrepresent what has gone on here the way he did. And that was the biggest misrepresentation I`ve seen from him in a long, long time.
HAYES: And not saying something. Congressman James Clyburn, always a pleasure to get some time with you. Thank you very much.
CLYBURN: Thanks for having me.
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