MSNBC "All In With Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Jim Mcgovern
Interview
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REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D-MA): Well, as you pointed out at the beginning of the show, Kevin McCarthy got basically everything he wanted. I mean, he sent a letter to Speaker Pelosi, talking about his demands including an equal representation of Democrats and Republicans on the commission. He got it. He got everything and yet he walked away.
So, he`s either a worse negotiator than Donald Trump, getting everything he wants and then walking away, or he`s a coward. He`s afraid of Donald Trump. Donald Trump does not want the truth to be known, does not want this commission to move forward. And what was really frustrating about today`s vote -- again, I commend those 35 Republicans who stood with us, notwithstanding incredible pressure put on them by the Republican leadership, but there should have been a unanimous vote.
And, and what was really also frustrating about today was that Kevin McCarthy didn`t even have the guts to come on the House floor and defend his position. I mean, I don`t know where the hell he was, maybe hiding under his desk, maybe talking to Donald Trump, you know, who`s in exile in Mar-a-Lago, but he`d even have the guts or the decency to explain to the American people why he`s not interested and them knowing what actually happened on January 6th.
HAYES: Right. So, he issues this -- he -- could you show me that letter again, just because -- so he`s writing a letter to the speaker, saying these are the things I want in the commission, right?
MCGOVERN: Right.
HAYES: And the big thing about equal representation was big. That`s the way 9/11 --
MCGOVERN: Equals subpoena power, he get that too. So, all the -- all the things in this letter he got.
HAYES: So, was that -- I don`t get -- what is your theory of the case here? Is it that he was lying then and was -- and was just fussing around to kick the can or he had a change of heart or he basically -- he got the phone call from the Mar-a-Lago, you know, prison phone saying, no good.
MCGOVERN: So, I think he was hoping the Democrats would negotiate -- would negotiate in bad faith. He was wrong. Chairman Thompson deserves a lot of credit. He negotiated --
HAYES: Oh, I see. He just thought it wouldn`t happen.
MCGOVERN: Yes, he just thought it wouldn`t happen. That`s number one. And then when it happened, you know, he panicked, and he got his orders from Donald Trump to, you know, to kill it.
Again, you know, at a time when the American people really want their leaders of both parties to stand up for principle, to do what`s right, and especially when it comes to getting to the truth about an insurrection, an attempt to overthrow our democracy, people want to know the truth.
And we want to -- we want -- we want it to be done in a way that is bipartisan, similar to what we did with the 9/11 Commission. So we presented that, and Kevin McCarthy couldn`t take yes for an answer. I mean, it is really quite sad. And I can`t -- I don`t quite know what Donald Trump has on him. But clearly, Kevin McCarthy is afraid to death of Donald Trump, and that`s pathetic.
HAYES: Well, and now you`ve got the Senate too. I mean, there`s a hurdle there. So, 35 votes -- but let me just ask you this. 35 votes in the House, was that around? What was your over-under? What did you set the line at today?
MCGOVERN: Well, you know, I was hoping for at least 30 votes or 40 votes, you know, in the aftermath of the Republican whipping against it.
HAYES: Leadership, yes.
MCGOVERN: Yes. So, I mean -- so, you know, I think it`s a solid bipartisan vote. But again, the frustrating thing is it should have been unanimous. And you know, as far as Mitch McConnell goes, I mean, I don`t know what it is about these Republicans, the more Donald Trump insults them, the more they want to cower to him.
I mean, when Mitch McConnell said this was a partisan, you know, bill, maybe he wasn`t paying attention. Kevin McCarthy got everything he wanted in this bill. This is a truly bipartisan bill and yet, they couldn`t take yes for an answer.
HAYES: Yes. I mean, 35 members of the House Republican caucus would equal around nine Republicans in the Senate, if you have the same percentage, which would maybe get you close to a filibuster-proof majority. Now -- I mean, now it goes to the Senate, right, and the filibuster is in play there. I guess, you know, if you`re Chuck Schumer, you got to force him to filibuster obviously.
MCGOVERN: Right. Yes. And -- but here`s the deal. My hope is they won`t filibuster and the Senate will pass this. But if not, we need to --
HAYES: Congressman, I have news for you.
MCGOVERN: Well, well, I mean -- yes, there`s always hope, right? But if not, we need to proceed anyway. And if we have to proceed through a Special Select Committee, we`ll have to go that way. But the American people deserve the truth. I mean, I was there on January 6th. I was the last person off the House floor. I was presiding when that attack came.
And I walked down into the speaker`s lobby, and I saw this angry mob of homegrown fascists, you know, banging and breaking the glass trying to get at us. I mean, people walking around the Capitol with Confederate flags, with anti-Semitic shirts that say Camp Auschwitz. I mean -- I mean, this is -- this is the group that attacked our democracy.
And to just not acknowledge that -- but I have some members, as you mentioned, try to say that nothing really happened that day is insulting and disrespectful, by the way, not to me and not to members of Congress, but to our staff, to the people who work up here, from the cafeteria workers to the Capitol Police.
It`s insulting to the American people who expect us, you know, to respect our democratic institutions and to respect elections. So, we`re going to get -- we`re going to pursue this. My hope is that we can pursue this in a truly bipartisan way. And if that`s not possible, we`ll have to move forward with the Select Committee.
HAYES: All right, Congressman Jim McGovern who chairs the rules committee, thank you so much.
MCGOVERN: All the best. Be safe.
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