CNN "Cuomo Prime Time" - Transcript: Interview with Pramila Jayapal
Interview
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REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Good to see you, Chris.
CUOMO: Now, my heart isn't gone yet. So I'm not going to talk numbers with you before I talk humanity.
I had seen the footage of you on January 6. I was afraid for you guys. That was a very sad day for me, before any other emotion, and when we see you on that video, you look exactly like any of us would. That was scary. You were in the gallery so they couldn't evacuate you as soon as the people were that were lower.
And when you think about January 6 in the context of how it has been handled by your colleagues in the House, and now in the Senate, how do you feel?
JAYAPAL: It was so visceral today, watching the replay of everything that happened. I don't know how you can watch what happened and even begin to think that that was defensible conduct in any way, or that it shouldn't be addressed with impeachment. I really -- removal. I really don't know how.
And I'll tell you that a lot of my colleagues today were watching that. It felt like we were transported back to that day and the fear that we had that we were going to die.
And, you know, for me, I was literally maybe 15 feet between me and the door. There was no furniture to bar the doors up in the gallery, because that furniture is all bolted down. And we could hear them ramming at the doors, you know, pounding at the doors. We could hear the screaming, very, very closely. We heard the shot being fired, which later we came to know was Ashli Babbitt.
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So all I can say is that these senators have to convict. I'm not saying I think they will, Chris, but I'm just saying the stakes couldn't be higher for our democracy, for our future. I don't know how else to say it.
CUOMO: People died. A lot of people were hurt.
I was talking to Senate -- Senator Klobuchar earlier. And you know, it's a provocative question, but I don't think it's a bad one.
What would have happened if they got to some of you and they hurt some of you? Do you think that would have been enough for the senators? I mean, what would it have taken? Someone they like, you know, from their own party? Because these guys were coming after all of you. They were looking for Mike Pence, these guys.
Do you think that would change it? Or at the end of the day, are we in such a perverse place where people who were hiding with, who were all sharing the same fear, then got up and did totally different things when the vote resumed?
JAYAPAL: Well, that's what I keep asking myself over and over again. What would it take for these Republicans to recognize their duty and not be beholden to the cult of one man? That's all -- that's all this is.
His conduct was indefensible, and I think you saw that with the attorneys today. They had no way to defend anything that he did or said. They were -- they provided a terrible performance, but they had a terrible client.
And so I don't know what it would have taken. I don't think, Chris -- it just pains me to say this. I don't think that, even if one of us have been killed, they would necessarily change the minds of many of those Republicans.
I'm still holding out hope that some -- at least 10 of these Republicans will do what is right and not damage our democracy, our future, our Constitution, everything with -- without convicting this president -- this last president.
CUOMO: So let's talk about how things take shape in terms of taking care of other people who need it.
The problem within the party, and you'll say it's not a problem. We're just discussing it. OK. But in my reporting, the -- let's start with the $15 dollar wage. There is a fairly solid consensus that you guys are going to have problems with the parliamentarian on whether or not that is emergency spending, or if it is something that affects the budget. The response is, Well, it would only be temporary, but that may not be a fix for that.
Are you willing to consider that not being part of this bill, at this point?
JAYAPAL: Well, I really don't see why we need to consider not having it be part of the bill, because it needs to go through the House, and then -- and I'm actually in the middle of that markup still, that committee markup. And we just finished talking about minimum wage, spending a couple of hours on it, and the deep need to make sure that we are lifting the wages of 30 million people, lifting a million people out of poverty in this moment of the pandemic.
But I firmly believe that the CBO score on Monday showed us that there is substantial budgetary effect on the federal budget. And so I do think that it will be within the bird rules to consider minimum wage, and it will be a massive boon for workers across this country, frontline essential workers. Twenty-five percent of these workers that will benefit are Latinx; 30 percent are black.
So if we're talking about inequity and injustice right now, and people who are disproportionately burdened, this is absolutely the right thing to do. And of course, it's a structural reform that is far overdue.
CUOMO: What is the balance for you in terms of getting things done now and going big, versus incremental-ism that may allow something to get done more quickly? Do you have any faith in second or third bites at an apple?
JAYAPAL: I mean, look, I think that we are in the midst of multiple crises, and you've been reporting on them. This is not the time for incrementalism. This is the time to go bold, and I think the president has been clear that that is his belief, as well, first with the rescue package, and then with the recovery package, the Build Back Better package that we will have to work on next.
We've got to put people back to work, but we can't do that until we crush the virus, until we get money in people's pockets. You know, the food lines across this country, just going back to the heart and humanity, Chris, the food lines across this country are stunning. Absolutely stunning.
CUOMO: The worst since the Great Depression. We've not had kids hungry like this, have families hungry like this in this country.
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JAYAPAL: That's right. And, you know, one million people still, every week, are filing for unemployment. So I just think that we have to recognize where we are. The economists largely agree with us.
And so we are going to push to get the president's package across the finish line, because it's what the American people want.
You know, I always think it's funny when people talk about, well, you know, we need to make this bipartisan. Chris, this is bipartisan. Seventy percent of people, in some polls 90 percent of Americans, both Republicans and Democrats, believe that we should pass this package, that we should go big.
If you look at the $15 minimum wage, Florida, in November, in the midst of the pandemic, just as they were voting for Donald Trump, they also voted by a two-thirds majority to pass a $15 minimum wage.
In Georgia, we won the election, in part, in really pushing for these survival checks. And, you know, Warnock and Ossoff have been clear that they believe this is what should happen. We've got to show people that when Democrats control the House, the Senate, and the White House, that we will deliver relief, relief that people can feel. Literally feel, like, Oh, my gosh, my government is working for me. They are helping me. And so that's what we're working on. And so far, so good. We've
preserved the -- the thresholds for the survival checks, and we've preserved the $15 in the bill. And I really believe that we can get it through.
And we shouldn't -- we should not cave to, you know, one or two people that are worried about going big. We have to deliver for the people. That's what we promised. We've got to keep those promises.
CUOMO: So let's do this. Obviously, you're going to have the trial as an interrupt right now on the Senate side. After it, this will begin in earnest. You're welcome back on the show, regular time, and we'll discuss what the state of play is and what you think is right and wrong about it. You made it through the 6th. You can make it through anything.
JAYAPAL: Absolutely I can, Chris. We're all in this together. We're going to stand up for the -- to the end for the people.
CUOMO: You don't have to agree, but you've got to care about one another. That's the part we're missing. Congresswoman, I'll see you soon. God bless. I'm glad you're happy.
JAYAPAL: Thank you so much, Chris.
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