CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Adam Kinzinger

Interview

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COOPER: Gloria Borger, Laura Coates and Norm Eisen, thanks very much.

The question tonight of this entire trial is accountability versus forgetting, our next guests is a Republican in favor of accountability. Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois joins us now.

Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): You bet.

COOPER: First of all, I want to get your reaction to Day One of the trial. Were you surprised that Senator Cassidy did change his vote?

KINZINGER: Yes, he's been hard to figure out. I'm not overly surprised. I think he's a principle driven guy. But yes, it was definitely a surprise. And I think a pleasant surprise, and I think it's indicative of quite honestly, how poorly the defense did in their performance.

COOPER: Did that surprise you? I mean, clearly, the President, you know, has had problems with paying attorneys and with keeping attorneys. Did it surprise you just the -- yes, just the nature of their, you know, their argument or lack thereof?

KINZINGER: Yes, it did a little bit. I mean, I didn't think it was going to be powerful because how do you defend what happened on January 6th, and the events leading up? You don't, but I mean, I guess to these attorneys' credit, they got on the case a week ago, you know, and now you have to put up a pretty serious defense.

But yes, it was certainly outmatched. And I actually thought the prosecution did a good job.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, what stood out to you today?

KINZINGER: So I didn't see all of it. But I'll tell you, the parts I did see, it was methodically not necessarily just out of emotion, out of fact, laying down what happened, which I think sometimes we forget out of the emotion of what happened on the 6th, we've kind of walked away.

But I thought the most powerful thing was how they opened it, showing the video, showing stuff that we hadn't seen on the internet before, having the subtitles and the words people were saying, you know, with Trump, and I think anybody at least, even if you don't want to vote to remove, if anybody had to doubt that this was, you know, Antifa, or BLM or a false flag operation after that, there's no way you can't, and unfortunately, there were people that did, in fact, believe this wasn't, you know, what it was.

COOPER: You know, it was interesting to me, because the -- you know, we've all seen a lot of -- or some of that video or a lot of it, certainly. But there was something about putting it in what seemed to be a chronological thing where there was juxtapose to what the President was saying and what the crowd was saying and what was happening inside the House Chamber at the time and just sort of the small moments of horror and brutality against law enforcement personnel.

You know, I think back to the President saying he was a law and order -- the former President saying he was the law and order President, and those people who are attacking the Capitol saying they're patriots. When you see them attacking individual police officers, calling them names, you know, torturing them in some cases, it really just even though some of these videos have been seen before, I just found that very, incredibly disturbing.

Yes, it's amazing to me, because as a supporter of police officers, but also a person that recognize we need to reform in some areas, to see these folks with, you know, the thin blue line flags and this law enforcement stuff, using those to beat law enforcement officers. I mean, it's incredible.

I've become friends with one of the gentlemen, I won't name him, but that was involved in that and was really hurt. He's a police officer. And to hear his stories, he said, you know, these people are walking around acting like they support law enforcement officers, and they're saying things that are chilling.

It's like, I think there was -- not to get overly spiritual -- for me, there was just a serious level of evil that descended over that. And you see what happens when you take rhetoric and you let that anger go overboard, and I think the President bear serious responsibility for what we saw on the six and it's not just a speech that day. It's the four years of building the groundwork leading up to that.

COOPER: You know, part of that, I think just based on what you were just saying, it comes to mind the idea of other rising people and is something I think we saw a lot of over the last four years.

I mean, certainly we've seen a lot over the last decades, but it's so easy to otherwise people, to make people other than -- other than American, other than patriotic, other than human, you know, and we've seen it in Bosnia, we've seen it in Rwanda where a radio was telling people that, you know, Hutus, were telling the radio listeners that Tutsi were cockroaches for, you know, getting them ginned up for genocide.

And you see it in in these videos where people who claim they are patriots are in the face of a police officer calling him, you know, as we're seeing it right there and, you know, gouging out of the eye of one, you know, squeezing one, and you know, suffocating one in a doorway.

KINZINGER: It's incredible. And that's the huge problem, Anderson, it is not even our political dialogue. That's a huge problem. But it's -- that's a result of the fact that we've picked tribes in this country. You're either on the left tribe or the right tribe, and anybody that's not on your tribe, even if they're not on the other tribe, they are seen as the enemy.

And I've said before, kind of facetiously, but kind of not, I feel like if California got a nuclear missile, that, you know, some on the right would say, well, good, less electoral votes for the Democrats. And you know, if Texas got it, I just think the bottom line is, we have to understand each other's humanity, you can disagree.

But you know, as we saw on a commercial that's made the round, we have common ground, and we're standing on it, this is our Earth. This is our country, this is us and we need to see the humanity of each other, and we're just not.

COOPER: You wrote an opinion piece in "The Washington Post" and you said, quote, "Impeachment offers a chance to say enough is enough. It ought to force every American, regardless of party affiliation to remember not only what happened on January 6th, but also the path that led there."

And you went on to say, "The further down this road we go, the closer we come to the end of America, as we know it." What message do you think Senate Republicans are sending about who are voting not to proceed with this or voted not to proceed with this about where their priorities lie for the future?

KINZINGER: So I, you know, I'm not going to judge individuals, but I'll tell you this. If it's politics, which is why you would not vote to remove, that's the wrong answer.

This is one of those moments. And by the way, I have to promote this go to country1st.com with a one S-T. I do a video on there, where I talk about like kind of how we've gotten to this place and where we need to go.

But the bottom line on a vote like this, in a moment like this, is it has nothing to do with your election, your re-election, what your career is.

Anderson, we asked young men and women to give their lives to defend this country. And we appreciate that as we should, and yet, we're unwilling to give our own careers for a cause of the country. I just --

You know, the juxtaposition of that still just kind of maddens me sometimes.

COOPER: CNN is reporting that the former President is fixated on retribution against Republicans who are voting against him. How much do you think that looms in the minds of Republican senators? And you know, again, not individuals, but just how much do you think it looms in their mind? And do you worry yourself about retribution from him?

KINZINGER: You know, I don't fear the President at all. I mean, I really don't. The bottom line is I'm fine if I'm not re-elected, because I can look at myself in the mirror and I feel real peace.

And when I have kids someday, I think they'll be proud of this. That's where my pieces. I feel accountable to God and I feel like it's the right thing.

In terms of others. Look, yes, it's certainly fearful. Because they have envisioned some their entire life, being in politics and being who they are. There is nothing wrong with that ambition.

But then when that ambition goes above things, like, do we defend the Constitution? I mean, what happens if the next President does this again, and if that person happens to be a Democrat, we have no moral authority whatsoever to be outraged about anything now because we've lost that moral authority with this relativism.

COOPER: I'd definitely recommend you have kids. I'm trying -- I just tried it, it is a really good thing. You'd be a great dad.

KINZINGER: Amen.

COOPER: Congressman, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

KINZINGER: You bet.

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