CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Angus King

Interview

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COOPER: Jeff Zeleny, I appreciate it.

Joining us now, one of the jurors, Angus King, Independent senator from Maine. Senator King, thanks very much for being with us at the end of the long day. You were of course at the Capitol on the day of the insurrection.

Sitting there today watching video after video of what happened chronologically, different perspectives, the rioters coming just 58 steps away from you and your Senate colleagues. According to impeachment managers, Republican Senator Ted Cruz said he doesn't think it adequately connects the former President to the attack to prove he committed high crimes and misdemeanors.

Do you believe the former President is to blame and should be convicted?

SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): Well, I'd refer my friend Ted Cruz to our old law school, we went to different law schools together, I guess you would say and ask him the question, but for -- that's the question that law professors ask. Would it have happened but for -- and I don't see how any of this would have happened, but for Donald Trump's actions starting before the election, to de-legitimize the election, "The only way I can lose is if it's a fraud, if it's rigged."

And then from the period after the election all the way through to January 6, inviting people there. It was clear that the whole purpose of that rally was to stop the count. January 6 wasn't chosen as a random date. That was the date that was set for the Congress to certify the final results of the election.

So I don't see how you can answer that question and say, what if Donald Trump had conceded graciously at the end of November and said, we are going to live to fight another day, I'll run in four years -- would that have happened? And I don't think there's much doubt that it wouldn't have.

It was -- it was -- his handprints were on this beginning to end.

COOPER: I mean, if the crowd had caught Mike Pence, if the crowd had caught and killed Mike Pence, would that make any difference in terms of the vote in this among those Republican senators?

KING: You know, I've wondered that, and I don't think there's much doubt that -- you saw that, there is a video of that crowd, they were in a frenzy, and people do things when they're in a frenzy that they wouldn't do otherwise, and I think they might have killed him or Nancy Pelosi.

Would that have mattered? I think so. But it shouldn't because the offense is the same. Five people died. One of them wasn't the Vice President, but they were human lives as well.

And I think, one of the most damning parts of the day was the last part where they went through minute by minute of what the President did, or, in fact, didn't do during the afternoon during the riot that was going on in the Capitol.

He never said stop in a lot of his tweets earlier. You know, months earlier, he said, stop the steal, stop the rigging, stop -- he knew how to say stop, but he never did in the midst of this dangerous riot.

And in fact, when they were going after Mike Pence and he had to know that Mike Pence was a target and was in danger, he tweeted an attack on Mike Pence.

I thought that the passage of that afternoon and what he did and didn't do was really one of the most damning parts of the entire day.

COOPER: And of course, the first time he did speak that day, you know, he said that he loved the people who did this, that they were very fine or very special people, I should say. CNN is reporting that the former President's legal team is expected to argue that House Impeachment Managers were glorifying violence in their re-creation of the Capitol insurrection.

Does that make any sense to you other than just grasping at straws?

KING: No, I mean, the violence happened, and the film is the film, and we know that it happened, I mean, we were here. This is a very odd trial, Anderson, that's taking place before a hundred people who were witnesses in the midst of the crime scene. The Senate floor was part of the crime scene.

So everybody knows what happened. And we've seen the -- we've seen the film. The other thing that came through to me, Anderson was what a close call this was.

It was a close call physically for the senators, for the staff, for the people in the Capitol. Certainly, for the Capitol Police. It could have been -- it was -- it was within a few feet of being a really even worse catastrophe.

But also, Anderson, it was a close call for democracy and that's what really this case is all about. This case is all about are we going to be a country that abides by elections and has a peaceful transfer of power?

[20:15:10]

KING: One of the things I did mention in 1961, and then in 2001, we had two Vice Presidents who had lost the election who certified the person who beat them, Nixon and Gore.

They were in Pence's seat and certified the election that they had lost. Now, you know, that's the way this country is supposed to work.

This is the first time in American history we've had this kind of deliberate efforts to undermine the results of an election in every level, intimidating local officials, legislators, frivolous lawsuits, and then finally, a riot designed to stop the counting of the electoral votes.

COOPER: You know, one of the House Managers earlier in the day said something that I just -- it really stuck with me. She talked about 9/11, and, you know, 20 years ago, and that on that day, there was a plane headed for the Capitol, and the passengers on that plane stopped it, 44 passengers on that plane rushed the cockpit to commandeer the aircraft against the terrorists, and the plane crash in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, and we honor them every year as we should.

But the sacrifice that, you know, several dozen people were willing to make for people they didn't know in the Capitol, and for -- but for the Capitol itself, or, you know, the White House, for Washington, D.C. itself, and the sacrifice made by the police officers, some of whom were no doubt supporters of President Trump, but they were they're doing their duty, and that --

KING: To defend -- to defend the Capitol, those people in that airplane.

COOPER: Yes. And that these attackers rifled through the desk of some of the Republican senators who are sitting there watching all this, and they're not going to do anything about it to defend the Capitol.

KING: Well, the only -- the other thing that occurred to me was that that our democracy in some ways was saved by Republican officeholders like Raffensperger in Georgia or the fellow up in Michigan, the Republican certifier of the election, you know, that Republican officials around the country, the legislators from Pennsylvania and Michigan that refused the President's entreaties to reopen the election, the Governor of Georgia, all Republicans.

And I'm thinking about, well, this room is full of Republicans, what's the difference between the Secretary of State of Georgia and my colleagues in the room today? He was willing to step up and say, you know, this is -- this is wrong, and he did his duty. And I think in some ways, he is one of the heroes of this whole thing,

and I just -- I hope that my friends across the aisle will channel him and think about -- and think about those people, as you pointed out, who literally gave their lives to save the United States Capitol.

And I just again, to go back to your very first question, you know, well, this was just a crowd that happened to be here, and they were bad guys, and they broke into the Capitol, that just ignores all the context and the involvement of Donald Trump going back even before the election. And I think, today's case was very strong.

Now, I haven't heard that defense yet. They are going to have their time in court, and they're going to be able to make their case, but I thought today was pretty powerful, and particularly in light of the fact that the very people in that room were threatened by these actions.

COOPER: Senator King, I appreciate your time. Thank you, sir.

KING: Thank you.

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