CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Interview

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TAPPER: The more progressive side of the Democratic Party was a key part of the huge coalition that spanned from the left to even Republicans to get Mr. Biden to the White House.

Joining me now is soon-to-be-sophomore Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Democrat of New York.

Congratulations on being a sophomore.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Thank you so much. Good to level up.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Let me ask you, Congresswoman, how much does president-elect Biden owe the progressive movement and progressive leaders for his victory?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I think -- I believe that President Biden, in his wonderful acceptance speech last night, he acknowledged the enormous role that communities of color, black communities, Latino communities, the trans community, et cetera, played in his victory.

And we also know that majorities of these communities are progressive. They make up not just the progressive base, but the base of the Democratic Party.

And so I believe that, when we gin up the grassroots, and we celebrate them to the election, we should also celebrate them in our governance. So, I think a fair amount for us.

I think we owe everyday communities, I think we owe the poor, middle- class, working-class, black communities, communities of color, immigrant communities a great deal in seeing them and honoring them in our legislation.

TAPPER: If you could take off your congresswoman hat for just one second, I want to ask you, on a personal note, what does it mean to you, as a woman of color, to see a black woman as vice president-elect of the United States?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, it's really incredible.

(LAUGHTER)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's -- for so many of us, especially women, we have grown up -- and I know, my entire childhood, we grew up being told that women are too emotional and that this country would never elect first a black president -- and, luckily, that happened with the election of Barack Obama -- but now a woman of color, and no less a black woman, to the second highest seat in the land.

I mean, it's really remarkable. And you can't be what you can't see. That's very often said. And it's so amazing that so many little girls are growing up with this being a norm for them.

TAPPER: Biden is planning a wave of executive orders to roll back some of Trump's policies once he takes office, on everything from climate to the so-called Muslim ban.

As of now, however, it looks as though Republicans, at least until January, will hold control of the Senate. That's going to complicate your desire and the desire of other progressives for bold, sweeping, progressive legislation.

I mean, theoretically, you can pass anything you want in the House, but it doesn't matter if it goes to die in the Senate. How are you going to negotiate that? Are you going to work with more moderate Senate Republicans to try to pass something in the House that can get through the Senate?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I'm going to be spending my next couple of months doing everything that I can to extend help and offer support to the work of fantastic leaders that we just heard from like Stacey Abrams to make sure that we don't have a Republican Senate majority, that we win these races in Georgia, that we secure a Democratic Senate majority, so that we don't have to negotiate in that way.

And, so these Senate run-off races, they're on January 5, I believe. And it's -- that is right around the time that we will be preparing to swear in now president-elect Joe Biden and vice president-elect Kamala Harris.

[09:45:07]

And I think it's really important that we all work very hard to give them a Democratic Senate as well.

TAPPER: All right. After the election results come back from Georgia, I'm going to ask you that question again, OK?

But I will let...

(LAUGHTER)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: You got it.

TAPPER: I will let you punt that one now.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says that she thinks Biden has a tremendous mandate. But Democrats in Congress are potentially looking at a smaller House majority and, theoretically, a Republican Senate.

I want to play something that Virginia Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger said on a conference call of House Democrats this week that you, I'm sure, heard what -- as it happened live.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) REP. ABIGAIL SPANBERGER (D-VA): We need to not ever use the word socialist or socialism ever again, because while people think it doesn't matter, it does matter.

And we lost good members because of that. If we are classifying Tuesday as a success from a congressional standpoint, we will get (EXPLETIVE DELETED) torn apart in 2022.

And excuse the profanity. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). That's the reality.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: I imagine you disagree with that assessment.

Why is she wrong?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: So, first and foremost, I want to acknowledge that so many of -- I acknowledge, first of all, just the really hard fight that a lot of our swing district members had.

And it is not to deny that Republicans levied very effective rhetorical attacks against our party. That, I believe, is absolutely true.

But I think one of the things that's very important is that -- is to realize that very effective Republican attacks are going to happen every cycle. And so the question is, how do we defend ourselves against that?

If you look at some of these -- some of the arguments that are being advanced, the defund the police hurt or that arguments about socialism hurt, not a single -- not a single member of Congress that I'm aware of campaigned on socialism or defunding the police in this general election.

And these were largely slogans or where they were -- they were demands from activist groups that we saw in the largest uprising in American history around police brutality.

And so the question that we have is, how can we build in -- a more effective Democratic operation that is stronger and more resilient to Republican attacks? And I believe that there are many areas that we can point at in centralized Democratic operations that are extraordinarily weak.

For example, our digital campaigning is very weak. And this is an area where Republicans are actually quite strong. President Trump, he won the 2016 election, as we know, largely on digital organizing and strategy. And I believe that many Republicans were very effective at digital organizing and strategy as well, whereas the Democratic Party is still campaigning largely as though it's 2005.

And I know a lot of us don't want to hear this, but 2005 was 15 years ago. So we can do better. And then, when we really dig down and refine our operations, we can be more resilient to these strong Republican attacks. TAPPER: You told "The New York Times" that you almost didn't even run

for reelection, in part because of the -- of treatment from your own party.

You said -- quote -- "It's the incoming. It's the stress. It's the violence. It's the lack of support from your own party. It's your own party thinking you're the enemy" -- unquote.

Do you really think other Democrats see you as the enemy? Do you think Joe Biden sees you that way?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I don't believe Joe Biden -- I don't believe President Biden sees me that way. And I believe that that's actually one of the reasons why he won election

It -- there's a marked difference between 2020 and 2016 in how the Democratic Party was able to unify, to Joe Biden's credit, before the election and get everyone on the same page to make sure that we vote Donald Trump out of office.

That being said, there are, at least in the House caucus, very deep divisions within the party. And I believe that we need to really come together and not allow Republican narratives to tear us apart.

As you mentioned, we have a -- we have a slimmer Democratic majority. It's going to be more important than ever for us to work together, and not fight each other.

And so, when we kind of come out swinging not 48 hours after Tuesday, when we don't even have solid data yet, pointing fingers and telling each other what to do, it deepens the division in the party. And it's irresponsible, it's irresponsible to pour gasoline on these already very delicate tensions in the party.

So, we can help. It's not saying that every member can -- has to campaign as a progressive in a traditional progressive way. But it's to say that we have assets to offer the party that the party has not yet fully leaned into or exploited.

And I believe that we can take some of these seats. I think Katie Porter is an amazing example, Michael Levin. There are swing seats. Every single swing seat member that co-sponsored Medicare for all won their reelection.

[09:50:09]

TAPPER: Right.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And so the conversation is a little bit deeper than that, than just saying anything progressive is toxic and a losing message.

TAPPER: Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, thanks so much again for coming on the show.

Congratulations on Joe Biden, Kamala Harris' victory. And, I should note, congratulations on your own. You were reelected.

So, thanks so much for being here.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Thank you. Thank you so much.

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